if he gets elected, pulls us out of iraq, closes gitmo, and restores civil liberties to their pre-9/11 status, and then ta-da something actually blows up, how many times is he going to say "uh um" during the press conference in which he capitulates to the chickenhawks in both parties screaming for his head
It's hard to see how staying in Iraq is helping to prevent domestic terrorism. Even McCain wants to close Gitmo. I doubt civil liberties will go all the way back to pre-9/11 status, and not sure if Obama is even suggesting that they should
― o. nate, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 20:58 (sixteen years ago) link
has convinved people like me to be largely uninterested in this question
-- gabbneb, Wednesday, April 30, 2008 8:55 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Link
shock of shocks
― deeznuts, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:04 (sixteen years ago) link
what elmo and tom said, basically--the dude comes across as too trusting in america's ability to be smart about shit
-- max, Wednesday, April 30, 2008 8:48 PM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Link
i really want to believe this is true, but it sounds the kind of bs that be lipped by his supporters - his flaw is that he's TOO right about everything? ill take that.
― deeznuts, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:07 (sixteen years ago) link
foreign policy naivete. biggest thing that worries me about him by far. if he gets elected, pulls us out of iraq, closes gitmo, and restores civil liberties to their pre-9/11 status, and then ta-da something actually blows up, how many times is he going to say "uh um" during the press conference in which he capitulates to the chickenhawks in both parties screaming for his head
-- El Tomboto, Wednesday, April 30, 2008 4:45 PM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark Link
this is more lol gwb put u in a jackpot sry!
― jhøshea, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:09 (sixteen years ago) link
i am really curious as to what hes gonna do w/the gitmo dudes who we have evidence against thats inadmissible due to torture tho
― jhøshea, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:10 (sixteen years ago) link
i wonder about his ability/willingness to get his hands dirty and wrestle things to the ground. saying you're willing to talk to iran/hamas/whoever is all well and good, but if you go into those situations you have to go in saying, "here's the deal: you can get this and this, you can't get this and this, and we're going to have to fight about this and this -- but if the fight goes on too long, you get nothing." the bushies have been terrible at that stuff, so it's not like the bar is set particularly high, but it would be nice to have someone who can actually get some things done. (wouldn't have to be him personally, but he'd need some hardball players around who knew how to do that.) (same applies in dealing with congress, obviously.)
― tipsy mothra, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:11 (sixteen years ago) link
deex -- i didn't say he's overly correct, but i think he may be presumptuous that America will be eager or grateful about implementing the changes he wants
― elmo argonaut, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:12 (sixteen years ago) link
also I am dead serious that his uh um uh tic that he has when you can tell he's thinking on his feet is really not reassuring at all
― El Tomboto, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:13 (sixteen years ago) link
he actually comes across as a guy who would be an absolute expert at that kind of stuff to me tipsy
― deeznuts, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:13 (sixteen years ago) link
yah he def should cut that out xp
― jhøshea, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:14 (sixteen years ago) link
nodding slowly and looking thoughtful is the way to go
― jhøshea, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:15 (sixteen years ago) link
his uh um uh tic that he has when you can tell he's thinking on his feet
this doesn't bother me so much -- it's campaign season and he has to be excruciatingly calculating about his diction. when he speaks off the cuff he gets in trouble, but really only because he running for office
― elmo argonaut, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:15 (sixteen years ago) link
or alternatively quit being so optimistic about your fellow humans that you keep getting surprised by shit, like Wright dropping an atom bomb on you on national television
― El Tomboto, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:16 (sixteen years ago) link
xp Still, I think Hillary is a better extemporaneous speaker.
― jaymc, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:17 (sixteen years ago) link
his almost musical hand-gesture of 'conducting' a discussion / 'putting a fine point' on an argument
it's like the new bubba remote
― elmo argonaut, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:17 (sixteen years ago) link
I don't think Tom's point is that Obama is going to cause terrorism to happen, just that when it does he's going to look bad.
― Hurting 2, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:18 (sixteen years ago) link
you guys all seem to think obama waaaaaaaaay less pragmatic than i do, i guess
― deeznuts, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:18 (sixteen years ago) link
I actually HOPE he's more cynical and pragmatic than I'm giving him credit for.
― Hurting 2, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:19 (sixteen years ago) link
eh tom did begin his post w/"foreign policy naivete." soo...
― jhøshea, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:19 (sixteen years ago) link
-- Hurting 2, Wednesday, April 30, 2008 9:18 PM (9 seconds ago) Bookmark Link
isnt this precisely cuz its easy to paint him as a pussy/pushover, which you guys all seem to be buying into?? i think hes far from either of those things. and i dont mean to draw this into electability issues, just that im more interested in what might be lurking behind the 'optimist' facade
― deeznuts, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:20 (sixteen years ago) link
i mean, this guy is naive?? he comes across as a freaking borderline genius to me
― deeznuts, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:21 (sixteen years ago) link
The Bush adminstration has done so much to restore if not empower the executive branch that I doubt President McCain, Clinton, or Obama would be so eager to rescind those powers -- why would you?
I wish he was an atheist -- with his oratorical skills he could do lots for the millions of us who want to hear a convincing defense of godlessness put to theists. And yet, and yet, I suspect he IS less of a god-fearing man than he pretends. Something about his preternatural coolness bespeaks a kind of deism.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:23 (sixteen years ago) link
might not be able to tame congress and end up like Clinton in 1994
Can't see that happening. He's got too many friends there already on both sides. Senators apparently luv the dude.
unless you ask her about bill's position on nafta and she goes into that uncomfortable cackle that's soooo painful to watch.
― kenan, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:23 (sixteen years ago) link
just a little armchair psychoanalysis, let's all be cool
― elmo argonaut, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:24 (sixteen years ago) link
its funny how everyone buys the optimist/naivety package - its a symptom of dumb cynicism - those two really dont have to come together
― jhøshea, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:25 (sixteen years ago) link
in fact i bet that obama is closer to the optimist/cynic model
its funny how everyone buys the optimist/naivety package
^^^. The right wing has been all "SEE? SEE? AUDACITY OF HOPE MY ASS!" the last couple of weeks; they've accepted the narrative that Obama is a New Kind of Politician. To me he's "new" only in that he understands the importance of words and is uncommonly quick-witted.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:26 (sixteen years ago) link
yeah i dunno if thats directed at me or not but i agree -- im not saying i dont believe the guy isnt genuinely optimistic, but i def dont believe he's remotely naive, like not even remotely remotely xps to jhoshea
― deeznuts, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:27 (sixteen years ago) link
not directed at u in the slightest deez
― jhøshea, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:29 (sixteen years ago) link
paranoid/optimist ^^^ lol
More on Obama & civil liberties: he voted to make permanent all but two of the PATRIOT act provisions that had been originally passed with an expiration date - so not exactly a wide-eyed innocent on that front.
― o. nate, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:34 (sixteen years ago) link
Early on I thought he came off as naive when he said that having lived abroad was a foreign policy credential. Like not only naive for thinking that (which he might not have, really), but naive for thinking it sounded good.
― Hurting 2, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:42 (sixteen years ago) link
i really don't think disappointments with an obama presidency will be with character flaws per se.
something that occasionally makes me uneasy about his campaign rhetoric is that he'll elide the differences between kinds of identity, most problematically ethnic and economic identities. being Latino isn't really like being rich even though there's a fair degree of mystification cast over class as culture in this country. i don't really know where i'm going with this; it fits his overall message well to talk about the poor/rich divide as bridgeable, but that's a divide that economic policy should be targeted at eliminating or at least bringing closer, it's not like the problem is, oh if only poor people and rich people could just sit down over coffee and talk.
― horseshoe, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:48 (sixteen years ago) link
which i'm sure he knows and in part he's hemmed in by the landmine that is talking about class in America.
― horseshoe, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:50 (sixteen years ago) link
oh if only poor people and rich people could just sit down over coffee and talk.
-- horseshoe, Wednesday, April 30, 2008 5:48 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Link
http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/3448/l10342545qc8.jpg
― Hurting 2, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:54 (sixteen years ago) link
(ahem, not that I've seen it.)
― Hurting 2, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:55 (sixteen years ago) link
isn't the deal with character flaws you see powerfully ten years after that they're the things you saw as VIRTUES at the time
no one's going to be lookin back at president two-term obama and sayin "yes how did i not see he was naive?" -- what will piss you off abt him will be a quality you were pleased abt back when you voted for him
― mark s, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:56 (sixteen years ago) link
he will beat me in basketball and steal my girlfriend
― jhøshea, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:56 (sixteen years ago) link
maybe but i was really (maybe willfully?) blind to the bill clinton is untrustworthy thing in the 90s. i can see how it was the flipside of his charm in retrospect, i guess.
xpost
― horseshoe, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:57 (sixteen years ago) link
edwards was better at talking about class that obama, as i remember, but i also think its "easier" to talk about class as a white guy than it is as a black guy
― max, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:57 (sixteen years ago) link
and the flip side of that was that edwards was no good at talking about race.
― max, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:58 (sixteen years ago) link
uh, whatever that would mean, i guess
I kind of like to think that Barack Obama's reasonable optimism is engendering a sort of secular spirituality in the country.
― Curt1s Stephens, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:59 (sixteen years ago) link
it pretty funny fighting bill clinton and being all ooooh yah ok now i see why he got under yr skin so bad
― jhøshea, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:59 (sixteen years ago) link
i really want obama to give a truth bomb class speech like he did with race. lol campaign fan fiction.
xposts
― horseshoe, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 21:59 (sixteen years ago) link
also easier to 'talk about class' when you're never gonna be Prez and just want to influence the debate
― gabbneb, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 22:00 (sixteen years ago) link
at the time (i was like 10) i didnt believe that shit, just thought it was partisan & desperate
Nobody's gonna call bullshit on a 10 year-old and what studying up on the Clintons?
― jon /via/ chi 2.0, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 22:00 (sixteen years ago) link
hes never going to be able to give a speech about class with that kind of credibility after the "bitter" thing
― max, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 22:01 (sixteen years ago) link
i think edwards wanted to be prez xxp
― deej, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 22:01 (sixteen years ago) link
I didn't say he didn't want to be prez
― gabbneb, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 22:02 (sixteen years ago) link
Keeps the Beyonce stans from rioting at the merest hint that you ranked her behind Brooks & Dunn.
― onlyfans.com/hunterb (milo z), Tuesday, 17 November 2020 02:54 (three years ago) link
the great crime here is that it's in alphabetical order with The Beatles under T!!!!
― Clay, Tuesday, 17 November 2020 03:25 (three years ago) link
and even then out of order!
― Dan S, Tuesday, 17 November 2020 03:28 (three years ago) link
so it's in not-alphabetical order and alphabetical order... at the same time? How awesome is that?!!
Just to be clear, we're talking about the musical tastes of an ex-President of the United States, as revealed in a publicity press release on the eve of a book release for which he was probably given a seven-figure advance, as if it weren't carefully crafted to ensure its appeal to the greatest number of people, while offended the fewest potential customers, while not tarnishing his "legacy" in any way. That list probably got passed by a dozen marketing people and close advisors. And who cares what he listens to?
― the unappreciated charisma of cows (Aimless), Tuesday, 17 November 2020 04:33 (three years ago) link
^ that's a fucked up sentence, grammatically, but it says enough to be understood.
― the unappreciated charisma of cows (Aimless), Tuesday, 17 November 2020 04:35 (three years ago) link
even music fanatics do that though.
who
― @oneposter (💹) (sic), Tuesday, 17 November 2020 05:22 (three years ago) link
Barack, ya basic
― assert (MatthewK), Tuesday, 17 November 2020 07:53 (three years ago) link
it'd be cool if obama had early '00s ilm taste in music and his list was like MBV and manic street preachers and a few britney singles
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 17 November 2020 08:23 (three years ago) link
A bad Stevie Wonder song balanced by a great one.
they're both great
― Change Display Name: (stevie), Tuesday, 17 November 2020 08:47 (three years ago) link
ALways thought Freddie Freeloader was the only track that could be dropped from Kind of Blue. Good to see it's someone's favourite, I guess.
― mahb, Tuesday, 17 November 2020 09:18 (three years ago) link
Logged onto Apple Music this morning to stream Agharta while I worked and it's clearly the day's most-played Miles track
― Change Display Name: (stevie), Tuesday, 17 November 2020 09:46 (three years ago) link
Mr.Obama, sir, please play one of the creepier outtakes from Aphex Twin's masterpiece SAWII while ordering a drone strike.
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 17 November 2020 09:58 (three years ago) link
"In honor of my book hitting shelves tomorrow.."
that's what i like about him so much, he's always so generous towards himself.
― calzino, Tuesday, 17 November 2020 10:22 (three years ago) link
"in honour of my book hitting shelves, in states where people would both buy a book by a Muslim Kenyan communist and where bookshops are still open..."
― @oneposter (💹) (sic), Tuesday, 17 November 2020 10:56 (three years ago) link
Ive always felt like he probably has pretty OK taste in music for a global supercelebrity who likely never gets any alone time whatsoever to listen to or think about music, and that simultaneously he doesnt know anything about these playlists until after they're published
― turn the jawhatthefuckever on (One Eye Open), Tuesday, 17 November 2020 13:13 (three years ago) link
He's plugging a book, yes. I liked this a lot, but I'll leave it to the usual suspects to explain how phony it is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jWjk5zA12U
― clemenza, Friday, 20 November 2020 02:09 (three years ago) link
Fine enough review.
https://newrepublic.com/article/160285/obama-promised-land-trump-biden
― xyzzzz__, Friday, 20 November 2020 16:29 (three years ago) link
Osita Nwanevu on the new book and, by extension, Biden
Obama appears now to be a better judge of Mitch McConnell. “I’m enjoying reading now about how Joe Biden and Mitch have been friends for a long time,” he told Goldberg. “They’ve known each other for a long time. I have quotes from Biden about his interactions with Mitch McConnell. The issue with Republicans is not that I didn’t court them enough. We would invite them to everything: Movie nights, state dinners, Camp David, you name it. The issue was not a lack of schmoozing. The issue was that they found it politically advantageous to demonize me and the Democratic Party. This was amplified by media outlets like Fox News. Their voters believed this, and over time Republicans became so successful in their demonization that it became very difficult for them to compromise, or even be seen being friendly.”What Obama doesn’t acknowledge outright here is that denials of this reality—the insistence, for instance, that Joe Biden’s personal relationship with McConnell means something—are coming from Biden himself. In a speech Monday, Biden dismissed doubts about a return to bipartisanship under his administration. “The refusal of Democrats and Republicans to cooperate with one another is not due to some mysterious force beyond our control,” he said. “It’s a conscious decision. It’s a choice that we make. If we can decide not to cooperate, then we can decide to cooperate. I believe this is part of the mandate from the American people—part of the mandate they gave us. They want us to cooperate. They want us to deliver results. And the choice that Kamala and I will make is that we’re going to do that.”Biden’s always lacked Obama’s eloquence, but he’s ably performing here something Obama always excelled at—an attempt to mystify the forces at work in American politics, framed as a demystification. The hard, stubborn reality we all ought to man up and recognize, Biden tells us, is that teamwork makes the dream work. But Obama is publicly expressing doubts about this political mode that Biden has yet to betray—all while denouncing political dishonesty and fakery in the Trump era.
What Obama doesn’t acknowledge outright here is that denials of this reality—the insistence, for instance, that Joe Biden’s personal relationship with McConnell means something—are coming from Biden himself. In a speech Monday, Biden dismissed doubts about a return to bipartisanship under his administration. “The refusal of Democrats and Republicans to cooperate with one another is not due to some mysterious force beyond our control,” he said. “It’s a conscious decision. It’s a choice that we make. If we can decide not to cooperate, then we can decide to cooperate. I believe this is part of the mandate from the American people—part of the mandate they gave us. They want us to cooperate. They want us to deliver results. And the choice that Kamala and I will make is that we’re going to do that.”
Biden’s always lacked Obama’s eloquence, but he’s ably performing here something Obama always excelled at—an attempt to mystify the forces at work in American politics, framed as a demystification. The hard, stubborn reality we all ought to man up and recognize, Biden tells us, is that teamwork makes the dream work. But Obama is publicly expressing doubts about this political mode that Biden has yet to betray—all while denouncing political dishonesty and fakery in the Trump era.
― it bangs for thee (Simon H.), Tuesday, 24 November 2020 04:46 (three years ago) link