Community, the tv show

i think so, yeah, i can't think of anything offhand more specific than 'funny nbc show'

in this post-seinfeldian tvscape etc etc

Also shows about nothing (really). Lots of surreal subplots, often hinging on infantile, selfish behavior. Troy and Abed=Kramer. Jeff is Jerry. Chevy Chase is George-ish.

nottttt really

yeah, not at all

Not at all? That's the vibe I'm totally getting. Thinking stuff like drugging a girlfriend to play with her toys is something this show would do and only this show.

Not saying this is by design, mind. I'm just getting Seinfeld vibes in season 3.

I think all of the Seinfeld characters are a lot colder than anyone on Community.

I think Seinfeld is way more nihilistic

Think it's the combination of selfishness and surrealism on display each week. I dunno. I think the characters on Community are pretty cold, personally. They're all kind of robots, and even when there are glimmers of heart it feels kind of tacked on, because we know these people can't change. Like the S3 season where Britta suspects someone is homicidal, and it's perfectly plausible that any one of the group can be the crazy one.

Now, I, personally, feel more affection for the Community crew than the Seinfeld folks, but they're still a bunch of self-involved loons.

selfishness and surrealism is like the template for half of all post-Seinfeld sitcoms

I could not disagree more, but w/e. xp

I was going to rebut this but I had a flashback to "Bring it in for a breast bump, ladies! ...No? We'll get there!" and am too busy lolling.

I agree with you, some dude. Not saying the shows are identical.

I think Seinfeld is way more nihilistic

http://www.alixspence.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/The-Big-Lebowski_Busby_Peter-Stormare_hood.bmp1_.jpeg

ya, is a show about nussingk.

yeah but i'm saying the parallels are so broad as to be meaningless. i would say one of Community's greatest triumphs is that it's one of the the only sitcoms of the past 15 years not about a family household or workplace that never particularly reminds me of Seinfeld or Friends. (xpost)

Community may as well be about a family household or workplace, come on.

I can imagine the Community series finale exactly the same as the Seinfeld series finale. Which is more than I can say for Big Bang Theory or How I Met Your Mother or whatever.

It's sure as hell not about community college!

doing the Seinfeld finale is not a good thing!

Not at all! Just saying these characters would fit that mold pretty easily.

I disagree. I think that's a shallow assessment of these characters.

when people say things like "It's sure as hell not about community college!" I really wonder if they're watching the same show as I am

I mean, the show is doing all sorts of goofy hyper-aware stylistic things but the core of the stories always go back to the school and how these characters are changing as a result of their experiences there and with each other. The school setting is what brought them all together and is the main thing keeping them together.

The only episodes I'd say were REALLY disconnected from the school are these two third season episodes:

Remedial Chaos Theory
Studies in Modern Movement

Everything else is either centered around the school or initiated by the school, and even with those two you have the argument that the shuffling of living accommodations from year to year by the younger characters with fewer roots is still something that's tied pretty closely to the experience of being a post-high school student.

it's a fucking american network sitcom! ppl are complaining about character development vs. world building vs. consistency vs. whatever

I think it works really well as a fucking american network sitcom, and that's the big strength and the only issues you run into is when all the second sentence stuff is held up as the big reasons to watch. Rather than the jokes. It's fun to poke holes in character dev., world building, consistency, etc. because that stuff is pretentious and it's mostly being projected onto a show that has a real strength in just being funny.

I wouldn't call it pretentious. Community isn't making a plea to the audience to Save the Children or insisting THIS IS HOW THE WORLD SHOULD BE, say, Aaron Sorkin-style. Lots of great comedies have these things, and they shouldn't be ashamed to shoot for them, otherwise all we'll get is Chuck Lorre sitcoms.

But I think this show is already surprisingly successful in this regard, so what do I know

agree with Some Dude

I'm kinda with mookie here...I love the show, I get a great amount of enjoyment out of it but I've never thought of it in terms of anything beyond Parks & Rec. I mean, sure Harmon throws in a meta episode every now and then and the jokes seem somehow 'more clever' but I would never have thought it worthy of the kind of excavation that's happening itt

Not that the excavators are ill-advised, I just do not have the energy to pull apart something I find funny. cf: comedy voting thread. I like talking about what other ppl find funny, but when you get into why it isn't, and why it doesn't work, and all that it's like pffflt *balloon deflating*

fun things = fun conversation, imo. which probably makes me super twee airhead person but whatever.

when people say things like "It's sure as hell not about community college!" I really wonder if they're watching the same show as I am

OTM. Unlike most shows in a scholastic setting, this show even actually spends a fair amount of time on the school part of school: there have been many episodes in classroom settings, dealing with homework, etc from the very beginning.

in a scholastic setting

Actually, I should say "shows about students".

And this is nothing like Seinfeld, come on! It has to be one of the most sentimental sitcoms in ages! How could anyone not see character development? Look at how much Jeff's character has softened, how much Annie has grown, the real closeness of Troy's and Abed's friendship. Seinfeld would never spend an entire episode creating a stop-motion world just to explore one character's subconscious trauma caused by his Mum not coming home for Christmas.

Yeaaaaaah...Josh is about as OffTM about this show as possible. To the extent that I'd argue that Community (which is at least in part about the importance of, uh, community and conflict resolution and growth) is in some ways the polar opposite of Seinfeld (which celebrated selfishness and solipsism and eternal adolescence). Yeah, there are displays of selfishness and antisocial behavior in both shows, but their function and the way they're handled are completely different. And, tonally, they're just such different creatures.

Whatevs. Different strokes, etc. Regardless, I love "Community."

when people say things like "It's sure as hell not about community college!" I really wonder if they're watching the same show as I am

This is nonsense. That's like saying "Parks and Recreation" is about small town governance and civil service. One of the many things I love about this show is that it doesn't even pretend to be about where it is set. They don't study (which is part of the joke). No one graduates (which is part of the joke). The classes are jokes (which is part of the joke). Anyone who watched this show wouldn't learn a damn thing about community college. It's this surreal idea of community college which is, again, part of the joke. And it's a funny joke.

Not sure that I buy that "Community" is about conflict resolution. If anything, it's about pretending to resolve conflicts while simmering undercurrents of tension and general insanity generally go unaddressed or get pushed aside. Which is, yes, part of the joke.

I think you might be watching another show, not Community

is it The View?

It's about a bunch of diverse women sitting at a table yelling at each other, with guest stars. Is that "Community?"

No one graduates (which is part of the joke).

apparently this is a community college that gives bachelor's degrees (i've never heard of such a creature but dan harmon INSISTS) so they've got four years to play with.

But there has never been a graduation ceremony! And none of the featured players have left yet, either!

(I'm still talking about "The View." Right?)

Community has only been running for two and a half years, not more-than-four. Are you thinking of Spooks? Featured players have left that.

But they're on their third year, right? And no one has left. Not Starburns, not Leonard, not weird funny-talking nerd dude, not any of the other major players.

Maybe Fat Neil graduated?

other similarities between Seinfeld and Community:

The gang in Community sits at a table for large portions of each episode.

fairly sure i saw a table in many episodes of Seinfeld!

OK, this show is not about community college in any remotely realistic way, I'll give you that.

But I mean, they do study, to varying degrees (Annie more than Jeff, for instance). Jeff and Pierce stayed up to finish a Spanish class presentation in one of the earliest episodes.

apparently this is a community college that gives bachelor's degrees (i've never heard of such a creature but dan harmon INSISTS)

Ha, I'd just been kind of assuming that maybe this is a thing in the US, where all post-secondary education is "college" anyway.:P

"one of the earliest episodes" tho

hard to say that the show in its current iteration (what class are they taking, again?) is ABOUT community college. it just uses the college as a setting and inspiration for plots/joeks. but it's become arbitrary imo, as much as any sitcom that doesn't take place in a suburban home.

Exactly. Hardly any sitcom centered around a particular location/workplace (e.g. Cheers, NewsRadio, et al) is really about that location/workplace in any meaningful way.

can i just say, i suspect that 'an analogy is a thought wearing another thought's hat' is a secret decoder ring for the last episode (and probably the whole show). even though it comes from britta. but i cannot prove it yet.

L O S T

OK, I'll admit that my perspective is probably swayed by watching the s1 DVDs a lot since getting them for Christmas. The show really was about a community college study group and their classes and teachers at that point. In fact, I think that losing that element may be part of why much of the current seasons feels a bit off to me. (On the other hand, that could be bullshit because some of my favourite s3 episodes - Chaos Theory, Documentary Film - are the least college-y and I hated the 'Todd' episode which actually was all about a class project.)

"Current season", of course. S2 was the pinnacle. And, to be clear, about half of s3 has been as good.

Why would people in the same class graduate before other people in that class? "Fat Neil is graduating! Despite only being here for 2 years, he just did really well in Spanish 101!"