because I live here & actually know what it's like?
Dude...no. You live in one part of it, one kind of it. I live in another, see different stuff, where not even the college towns can muster up enough progressive support to do any real good.
― Whiney Houson (WmC), Friday, 30 March 2012 16:24 (twelve years ago) link
it may have switched parties, but the economic interests of the south have not really changed much since then
xp
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 30 March 2012 16:24 (twelve years ago) link
regional economic interests just swapped parties in the 20th century. we've been over this.
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 30 March 2012 16:25 (twelve years ago) link
also I don't get how the west (I'm assuming aero means CA, but also maybe WA and OR?) is not "all liberal". In many ways it's much more liberal than huge swathes of the country.
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 30 March 2012 16:26 (twelve years ago) link
well there are many rural parts of the west so sometimes it's important to highlight the rural/urban divide more than the blue state red state thing, otherwise you will get people saying "most of california is conservative!!" as if it were some truth bomb
― iatee, Friday, 30 March 2012 16:28 (twelve years ago) link
west coast != "the west"
― joygoat, Friday, 30 March 2012 16:28 (twelve years ago) link
From about 50-75 miles inland from the population centers, CA flips to solid red.
― Whiney Houson (WmC), Friday, 30 March 2012 16:28 (twelve years ago) link
oh cool this argument
― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 30 March 2012 16:29 (twelve years ago) link
"population centers" being the key part of your post
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 30 March 2012 16:30 (twelve years ago) link
unpopulated areas don't vote fwiw
aaaaaanyway - Walker recall election in less than 90 days
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 30 March 2012 16:34 (twelve years ago) link
this is true, I'm in a pretty rad bubble & you're way down there. it's true that population centers tend to get more progressive and as things get sparer less so - Birmingham's is fun & cool but I wouldn't wanna live elsewhere down there. MS/AL is basically what Shakey means by "the south" I figure & it's true that its voting patterns are pretty consistant. btw Shakey Mo which was the state that spearheaded all the gay marriage legislation that's finally making its way down here? was it MS? AL? GA? memory fuckin w/me here
― tempestuous alaskan nites! (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, 30 March 2012 16:43 (twelve years ago) link
massachusetts
― iatee, Friday, 30 March 2012 16:44 (twelve years ago) link
loooool is that actually true, was there an MA prop 22/prop 8 that preceded California?
― tempestuous alaskan nites! (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, 30 March 2012 16:45 (twelve years ago) link
prop 8's been struck down fyi and was financed by out-of-state interests as I'm sure yr aware
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 30 March 2012 16:47 (twelve years ago) link
it wasn't voted for by out-of-state interests dude, be real w/yourself
― tempestuous alaskan nites! (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, 30 March 2012 16:48 (twelve years ago) link
things started judicially in MN in 1972
looks like legislatively, things really started in Alaska and Hawaii back in 1998
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_the_United_States#Timeline_of_major_events
― THIS TRADE SERVES ZERO FOOTBALL PURPOSE (DJP), Friday, 30 March 2012 16:50 (twelve years ago) link
http://www.stateline.org/live/ViewPage.action?siteNodeId=136&languageId=1&contentId=15576
Six months after gay and lesbian couples began legally marring in Massachusetts, opponents of same-sex marriage swept Election Day, with voters in 11 states approving constitutional amendments codifying marriage as an exclusively heterosexual institution.
The amendments won in Arkansas, Georgia, Kentucky, Michigan, Mississippi, Montana, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Ohio, Utah and even Oregon the one state where gay rights activists had hoped to prevail.
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 30 March 2012 16:51 (twelve years ago) link
so step the fuck off with that shit
http://andrewgelman.com/2009/06/gay_marriage_a/
what's interesting is actually how reliably places have been fitting the model of which states we'd expect to pass gay marriage
― iatee, Friday, 30 March 2012 16:53 (twelve years ago) link
like it's really one of the best issues to isolate the difference between massachusetts and alabama, so, I mean
― iatee, Friday, 30 March 2012 16:54 (twelve years ago) link
legislatively yes! if/when the issue goes to the polls it's a different picture though, right. or not right?
― tempestuous alaskan nites! (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, 30 March 2012 16:56 (twelve years ago) link
no, the model is based on voters opinions on the subject
― iatee, Friday, 30 March 2012 16:57 (twelve years ago) link
lol the voters of CA (twice!) expressed their opinion about it where it actually had consequences & the results were odious!
― tempestuous alaskan nites! (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, 30 March 2012 16:58 (twelve years ago) link
prop 8 was mostly a timing thing, it was a tad too soon, 4 years later californians have already shifted enough that it wouldn't pass. also old people die.
― iatee, Friday, 30 March 2012 16:59 (twelve years ago) link
tend to agree w/you there but it passed in CA twice, once as Prop 22 and again as Prop 8. while your "population density tends to equal greater tolerance" model has some pith to it I think it vastly, vastly overstates the general decency of, y'know, people.
― tempestuous alaskan nites! (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, 30 March 2012 17:00 (twelve years ago) link
right, but it passed with a large margin in 2000 and a fairly small margin in 2008, it has nothing to do with 'decency of people', its just old people dying and people softening on the issue
― iatee, Friday, 30 March 2012 17:02 (twelve years ago) link
anyway just read the article I linked, I have to go
― iatee, Friday, 30 March 2012 17:04 (twelve years ago) link
idk man I see the appeal of the "younger people will be more liberal" model, I know a lot of people who subscribe to it & I'm sure there are charts aplenty but put the "right" kind of conservatism in front of young people and they become young Reagan Republicans, I'm a good deal less optimistic about the "history's tending this way" model
― tempestuous alaskan nites! (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, 30 March 2012 17:04 (twelve years ago) link
no there is also evidence that, contrary to popular belief, people tend to stick w/ the ideology they had at 24 or w/e. but in any case, gay marriage is pretty much the perfect case study of 'history's tending this way", like it is doing so in an incredibly predictably manner.
― iatee, Friday, 30 March 2012 17:06 (twelve years ago) link
predictable*
well, I'll drink to that, we're working hard to defeat an amendment here in NC, we'll see what happens
― tempestuous alaskan nites! (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, 30 March 2012 17:07 (twelve years ago) link
this is true, I'm in a pretty rad bubble & you're way down there. it's true that population centers tend to get more progressive and as things get sparer less so - Birmingham's is fun & cool but I wouldn't wanna live elsewhere down there.
I'm bummed you conceded my point so quickly, I was all ready with a Sarah Palin "I can see Tupelo from my back porch" zing.
― Whiney Houson (WmC), Friday, 30 March 2012 17:19 (twelve years ago) link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ZUeK7-2n7wQ
― Matt Armstrong, Saturday, 31 March 2012 07:42 (twelve years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUeK7-2n7wQ
― Matt Armstrong, Saturday, 31 March 2012 07:43 (twelve years ago) link
Typical liberal blah blah blah
― curmudgeon, Saturday, 31 March 2012 14:21 (twelve years ago) link
Obama and others continue to discuss Ryan's plan:
Ezra Klein tries to be nice and then goes after him--
In other words, Ryan’s budget fails even Ryan’s tests for encouraging social mobility: It focuses its cuts on programs for the poor rather than programs for seniors, and it doesn’t eliminate any tax loopholes. (Ryan’s office didn’t respond to requests for comment on this piece.)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/paul-ryan-betrays-his-own-views-on-income-inequality/2012/04/03/gIQAJCv2sS_blog.html?hpid=z2
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 16:18 (twelve years ago) link
In a speech to a media luncheon, Obama will call the measure prepared by House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan, R-Wisconsin, and passed by the House a "Trojan Horse" that is disguised as a deficit reduction plan but actually imposes a "radical vision" amounting to "social Darwinism," according to excerpts released by the White House.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/03/politics/obama-republicans/
No Grand Bargain conversation here
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 16:20 (twelve years ago) link
Ryan and conservative response yesterday was basically if you're not for slashing entitlements, you are not taking the deficit seriously and you just want to coddle people who don't work hard. I think Obama would be wise to also mention the right-wing attack from that one foundation that the Ryan plan cuts domestic spending but does not address the deficit well, or quickly enough because he has so many tax cuts and so much increased defense spending.
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 14:54 (twelve years ago) link
ryan's lashing out at the pentagon and then subsequent 'walk back' was interesting to see
― goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 15:00 (twelve years ago) link
http://dailycaller.com/2012/02/03/reid-senate-will-not-pass-a-budget-this-year/
Senate Democratic leaders do not plan to propose a budget this year, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid told reporters Friday, saying that they had already done so with the debt-ceiling agreement.
One of the current memes of Republicans from Romney to Ryan to anonymous commentators online is that the Dems can't criticize the Ryan budget when they don't have one (or have not voted for one--I think there is an Obama one and a Democratic rep from Maryland Van Hollen one). Is this anything to worry about? Is this Republican spin that should be ignored? And/or do I not have all the facts?
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 5 April 2012 15:29 (twelve years ago) link
it's my understanding that the debt ceiling deal WAS the budget, the fact that the GOP wants to weasel out of it doesn't mean the Dems have to play along
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 5 April 2012 15:32 (twelve years ago) link
GOP just wants to fight the same fight over and over, with no actual legislation passed
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 5 April 2012 15:34 (twelve years ago) link
I keep seeing stuff like this, but often without the explanation that the debt deal serves as the budget. Thus, Republicans like to crow that even Dems won't vote for Obama's budget, when this is just procedural games.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0412/74801.html
But a version of President Barack Obama’s own $3.6 trillion budget proposal, which the House unanimously rejected last week, also could come to the Senate floor, ensuring an embarrassing replay of last year when not a single senator voted for the president’s budget.
The MacDonough ruling essentially means any senator can place a budget proposal on the Senate calendar. Reid still controls the floor and could choose not to bring them to a vote, though the political optics of such a move could be damaging.
Democratic aides have dismissed the ruling as irrelevant, arguing that the historic debt deal already serves as a legally binding budget.
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 5 April 2012 15:40 (twelve years ago) link
how did the Justice Department advocate to the Supremes on the minor-offense strip search case? That's riiiiight:
http://www.salon.com/2012/04/03/the_obama_doj_and_strip_searches/singleton/
― World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Friday, 6 April 2012 12:05 (twelve years ago) link
lol these police state assholes suck so bad imo
― same old song and placenta (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, 6 April 2012 13:55 (twelve years ago) link
Not a good look, and it has been overlooked by many in the press. Eric Holder has not impressed me at all at Justice.
― curmudgeon, Friday, 6 April 2012 14:02 (twelve years ago) link
kind of irony-lolling that the first black President's overarching domestic mission appears to be "show everyone what it feels like to be black in America"
― God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Friday, 6 April 2012 14:04 (twelve years ago) link
Holder's been kind of a disaster imho
― it's smdh time in America (will), Friday, 6 April 2012 14:31 (twelve years ago) link
Maybe infuriating the left and the right is exactly what Obama wants from an attorney general.
― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 6 April 2012 14:34 (twelve years ago) link