sidney lumet search and destroy etc

dude jess they showed you network in film school? i think i will have to pray now

I think the whole movie is arguably seen through the Holden character's eyes, even if he isn't present, which may explain the perspective.

It's interesting because he started in TV in the early days. It made him less an "auteur" than a craftsman who is interested in finding the best techiques to convey the film's themes. So he has great knowledge of things like lenses... they mean a lot.

He's also really tuned in to how those techniques work on the subconscious - like in 12 Angry Men (search) how the shots keep getting tighter and tighter so it feels like the ceiling is caving in on the actors. I mean, the whole movie was shot in one room!

Most of his movies from the 80s on are pretty crapola though.

amst could you explain what you mean by this?

this is one of the more readable film threads in a while.

wow, this is just brilliant

roll over robert bresson

-- amateur!st (amateur!s...), February 27th, 2004. (later)

Seeing as how he made it in 1957 in the US studio system, yes, it's pretty noteworthy. I never said the guy was the greatest filmmaker alive for fuck's sake though. Just chiming in.

no all i'm saying is that that's a basic filmmaking technique that people used in the 1910s and onward, it's a nice technique and i'm sure there are some who are oblivious to it, but it doesn't really reveal any sort of creative genius on the part of lumet

in fact the range of stylistic options 'available' (in the 'have currency' sense) to contemporary hollywood filmmakers is in a certain sense narrower than it was in the 1950s

the quality of any of his movies is usually pretty incidental to his involvement.

You don't have to think he's a 'genius' to find this absurd. It's not like he throws the actors onto the set and starts rolling.

Prince of the City, just out on DVD, holds up real well -- more complex and tragic than Serpico. Lumet's comments on the 3 visual styles he used are illuminating.

Hmm.

and let's just thank God dePalma didn't direct Prince of the City as planned.

I'd like to think that Nancy Allen would fit into the ensemble nicely.

no, Lindsay Crouse is great in about 4 short scenes as Treat Williams' morose wife.

"The Offence" is pretty powerful. Haven't seen it in a long time tho.

Did he do "The Pawnbroker"? Even longer since that's been on telly!

"morose" and "Lindsay Crouse" are inseperable.

Re-saw The Verdict a couple of months ago...holds up better than expected, but the victory still seems forced, and the "tragic" ending too determinist.

well, that's just another Paul Newman comeback movie.

Lumet directed the ILX poll-winning classic Dog Day Afternoon, but perhaps it was pretty incidental to his involvement.

Sorry, Morbs -- Treat Williams gives one of the more unwatchable lead performances I've ever seen; however, Jerry Orbach gives his best screen perf. Nice creepy bit by Bob Balaban, pouring Bud in a hotel suite.

Pauline Kael otm: "Treat Williams has a very closed face—the kind of opaque face that is like a brick wall in front of the camera. And that may be why Williams, as a New York City police officer who agrees to be wired and to obtain evidence about corruption in his unit, plays each scene as an acting exercise—going through so much teary, spiritual agony that you want to throw something at him.

Good god I had no idea people hated Network so much! I saw it recently and loved it. Like Natural Born Killers, I didn't think it really 'worked' as a critique of exploitative TV journalism. If you aren't digging deep for satire or realism they're both just fun, fucking crazy rides. I thought it was fucking hilarious! The friendship between the two old broadcasters was pretty genuine. And maybe it's just because I loved how everything looked in the '70s: the warm, detailed wood of the news desk, the curlicue stairs and boldly patterned drapery of the lady's apartment. Why is everyone dead set on looking so anesthetized and ugly today?

I do think it works pretty well as a commentary on how people exploit/treat people with mental problems.

gabbneb otm here re: network

it's no longer a mildly hysterical vision of the future but a mildly satiric description of the present

anyone else looking forward to Before the Devil Knows You're Dead?

I like Network more than Eric, but I enjoy it as opera, not realistic cinema. (My favorite William Holden performance too).

I wouldn't want realism in a film like that because the depressingness would make me unable to finish it, if I could even start watching it.

Kael's quote about Treat Williams is exactly why I'm excited to see Prince Of The City. Oh, sweet, sweet irony.

Should clarify, I don't think Dog Day Afternoon is all over the place, it's perfect the way it is.

ok i watched The Dog documentary finally and holy shit. what a…i don’t wanna say piece of shit but yeah maybe piece of shit? proof that if you tell yourself something enough you can just force it to be true.

the real hero of the documentary is Frank’s brother Tony <3

I've probably asked this before: no Lumet poll? I'm sure DDA would win, but there should be one.

I don't remember seeing Night Falls on Manhattan when it came out ('96), but I must have--can't imagine skipping it. Lumet's fifth-last film...not good at all. He's remaking Serpico for the third or fourth time. Ron Liebman, Andy Garcia, and Ian Holm each get one big hysterically overwrought speech. The Garcia-Olin romance comes out of nowhere--you look away from the screen for a minute, and suddenly they're deep into a relationship that serves no purpose whatsoever.

The only interest is seeing James Gandolfini and Dominic Chianese in the same film three years before The Sopranos. No scenes together, unfortunately.

I remember Ian Holm giving his typically great performance and Liebman just behind him. Garcia gave his typically terrible performarnce.

I remember seeing NFIM in the cinema and falling asleep. The last Lumet I saw at home was the Anderson Tapes, which I think is underrated. It’s slightly less histrionic than usual, has a satisfyingly grizzly 1970s ending, and Connery is always interesting (to me) when he stops pretending to be likeable.

Garcia should stick to animation work.

no Lumet poll?

The Wiz would be getting at least one vote

Assumed you'd be Network.

around 3-5 votes will come in for Network, only one person will fess up to voting for it (me)

https://i.giphy.com/media/11mYSZihIu0q40/giphy.webp

https://i.imgur.com/uz3HzzJ.gif

NFOM is good not bad I think but it does feel like a Lumet greatest hits. It's got nothing on Q&A, Prince of the City, or Serpico as far as his police corruption pics. I've got zero memory of Garcia in this one, but remember Holm and Gandolfini really nailing their roles.

Look, I'll put my vote behind Network if the moderator agrees to leave off Before the Devil Knows You're Dead

i just watched before the devil knows yr dead

as the film gang here are always wrong abt movies i thought i might enjoy it -- lots of ppl shouting and cursing for two hours 👍🏽 👍🏽 👍🏽 -- but boy what a dumb movie

maybe the gang knows best after all

Let that be a lesson to you

Ethan Hawke's accent is a poem.