Artists that have used samplers as a creative compositional tool

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
Not all messages are displayed: show all messages (184 of them)

lol what the fuck ever

The Reverend, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 17:20 (twelve years ago) link

rev otm

i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 17:21 (twelve years ago) link

you guys don't think mixtapes tell a story?

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 17:22 (twelve years ago) link

wtf this thread

Jilly Boel (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 17:23 (twelve years ago) link

*places self in same category as Primo because that 1996 post-rock cassette I made for my bro had really nice transitions on it*

i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 17:23 (twelve years ago) link

Grandmaster Flash
DJ Quik
Dust Brothers
Dr. Dre (I refer you to "We're All in the Same Gang" for "narrative")
Prince Paul
The Bomb Squad
etc etc

Jilly Boel (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 17:24 (twelve years ago) link

They fought the longest war in american history (x2)

In 1965 Vietnam seemed like just another foreign war,
but it wasn't.
It was different in many ways, as so were those that did the fighting.
In World War II the average age of the combat soldier was 26...
In Vietnam he was 19.
In inininininin Vietnam he was 19.

(TV announcer's voice)
The shooting and fighting of the past two weeks continued today
25 miles west of Saigon
I really wasn't sure what was going on (Vet's Voice)

Nininini Nineteen, 19, Ni-nineteen 19
19,19,19,19

In Vietnam the combat soldier typically served a twelve month tour of duty but
was exposed to hostile fire almost everyday
Ninininininininininin 19 nininininninin 19

Hundreds of Thousands of men who saw heavy combat in Vietnam were arrested
since discharge
Their arrest rate is almost twice that of non-veterans of the same age.
There are no accurate figures of how many of these men have been incarcerated.
But, a Veterans Administration study concludes that the greater of Vets
exposure to combat could more likely affect his chances of being arrested or
convicted.

This is one legacy of the Vietnam War

(Singing Girls)
All those who remember the war
They won't forget what they've seen..
Destruction of men in their prime
whose average was 19
Dedededededede-Destruction
Dedededededede-Destruction
War, War
Dededede-Destruction, wa-wa-War, wa-War, War
Dedededededede-Destruction
War, War

After World War II the Men came home together on troop ships, but the Vietnam
Vet often arrived home within 48 hours of jungle combat
Perhaps the most dramatic difference between World War II and Vietnam was
coming home.. .none of them received a hero's welcome
None of them received a heroes welcome, none of them, none of them
Nenene Nenene None of them, none of them, none of them (etc...)
None of them received a hero's welcome
None of them received a hero's welcome

According to a Veteran's Administration study
Half of the Vietnam combat veterans suffered from what Psychiatrists call
Post-Traumatic-Stress-Disorder
Many vets complain of alienation, rage, or guilt
Some succumb to suicidal thoughts
Eight to Ten years after coming home almost eight-hundred-thousand men are
still fighting the Vietnam War

(Singing Girls)
Dedededededede-Destruction

Nininininininininin Nineteen, 19, Ni-nineteen 19
19,19,19,19
Nininininininininin Nineteen, 19, Ni-nineteen 19
19,19,19,19

(Soldiers Voice)
When we came back it was different.. Everybody wants to know "How'd it
happened to those guys over there
There's gotta be something wrong somewhere
We did what we had to do
There's gotta be something wrong somewhere
People wanted us to be ashamed of what it made us
Dad had no idea what he went to fight and he is now
All we want to do is come home
All we want to do is come home
What did we do it for
All we want to do is come home
Was it worth it?

iglu ferrignu, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 17:24 (twelve years ago) link

what no one's said My Bloody Valentine yet lol

Jilly Boel (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 17:25 (twelve years ago) link

thread made me remember this, well done thread

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqVJ1UpPIjI

zappi, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 17:27 (twelve years ago) link

"that 1996 post-rock cassette I made for my bro had really nice transitions on it*"

transitions speak more to technique than narrative. what was the tracklist on this cassette?

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 17:28 (twelve years ago) link

really?

i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 17:29 (twelve years ago) link

I mean

i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 17:29 (twelve years ago) link

really

i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 17:29 (twelve years ago) link

I didn't know there were people who still thought this way tbh

Jilly Boel (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 17:30 (twelve years ago) link

track 1. the bartman

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 17:31 (twelve years ago) link

track 2-9: The Ethel Merman Disco Album

The Reverend, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 17:32 (twelve years ago) link

would buy

scott seward, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 17:33 (twelve years ago) link

and why no amen break? totes a creative compositional tool. and what is the etc? other breaks?

scott seward, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 17:35 (twelve years ago) link

you haven't heard etc etc's groundbreaking sampling of doorbell buzzers

Jilly Boel (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 17:39 (twelve years ago) link

i think using the amen break in full is more of an editorial choice than a compositional one. like picking out a piece of carrot cake at a buffet. to be compositional, you'd have to chop it beyond recognition, like mixing that carrot cake with froyo to make some kind of carrot cake smoothie.

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 17:40 (twelve years ago) link

You mean like 99% of dnb tracks ever?

The Reverend, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 17:41 (twelve years ago) link

if the original artist couldn't successfully sue you for swiping a drum break because you've chopped it beyond all recognition, I'd say you're safely in the compositional zone.

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 17:44 (twelve years ago) link

lol @ appealing to legal rulings

Jilly Boel (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 17:46 (twelve years ago) link

i prefer non-creative compositional tools

iglu ferrignu, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 17:46 (twelve years ago) link

if there's anyone who knows about making aesthetic judgments, it's lawyers amirite

Jilly Boel (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 17:47 (twelve years ago) link

is this the part where we get to rehash the Englebert Humperdinck vs. Biz Markie

Jilly Boel (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 17:48 (twelve years ago) link

ODB used to stand for old dirty barrister

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 17:49 (twelve years ago) link

oh man that old thread, jeezus, memory lane right there:

James may just give up at once. If you are looking for good and actually musically sophisticated hip-hop, then that is not going to happen. And the responses in this thread show why. Hip-hop are doomed to stay shit forever, because the hip-hop audience has got this sick idea that musical sophistication is "white" (=bad).

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, November 17, 2003 8:49 PM (8 years ago)

scott seward, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 17:51 (twelve years ago) link

"to be compositional, you'd have to chop it beyond recognition"

yeah, philip, uhhhhhh, never mind...

scott seward, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 17:52 (twelve years ago) link

to be compositional, you'd have to chop it beyond recognition

But the Amen Break IS chopped; it's a tiny drum break that has been sped up, or slowed down, and recontextualized... and that, in my mind, is a creative compositional tool. I'm not understanding this whole thread.

Hey Jude, don't make it BAD MENTAL HEALTH (Dan Peterson), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 17:53 (twelve years ago) link

still think this is one of nate's finest moments:

1) Original poster James picks misleading/provocative thread title and couches what would otherwise be a harmless inquiry about experimental rap in the dangerous area of "rap on the whole is stagnant and I want the newness".
2) The usual suspects mock this. Most of us are all "ok, fine, pfhsgh" because we're familiar with these posters. ddrake initially chimes in with "instruments in rap /= progressive" and gets little if any real hostility.
3) ddrake then mistakes "progressive/experimental" for "white", flings out a "you know that's what you really mean" equivalent ("admit it") and suddenly the tone of Typical ILM Prog-Rap Mockery gets a bit weird
4) Ned sez "because instruments are white! oh wait" and ddrake fires back "U R NOT OF TEH FUNNIE"
5) ddrake: "Seriously though, unless you actually know the hip hop history, which it sounds like you don't, I'd wait to listen to "prog" hip hop. " [emphasis mine]
6) A couple more joke posts, a couple geniune attempts to steer the thread into actual topical coherence ("Dalek?"), J0hn being all "Ned OTM"
7) dd: "Oh give me a break! Dilute, my friends, dilute!" Then he goes onto some snotty "prog is unfun" jibe.
8) Jokes jokes jokes. The nate that is not me says "The twisted part is that some people actually like challenging their brains."
9) dd: "Rush! Yes! Prog stupid! Also read it, motherfuckers!"
10) not me nate: "But Braxton/Cornel/Toni Morrison..."
11) Ned to o. nate: "ddrake will get mad at you now and claim you don't understand hip-hop. You are so burned. *cue ddrake: 'Ha ha, where is your sense of humor, dork, etc.'*"
12) "you're out of your league, donnie."
13) dd shortly later: "Blues People is a more incredible work than anything anyone on ILM has accomplished...a more important work as well. That I can't believe more of you haven't read." [here is where my arrogance alarm goes off.]
14) Ned sums up the crux of the issue: "Remind me again how you've assumed you know what everyone here has read/listened to/thought again? I missed the proof of your omniscience here."
15) Some stupid bullshit ensues
16) Wooster is namedropped
17) Accusations of privacy intrusions fly
18) The thread officially becomes ridiculous
19) Everyone tries to explain to ddrake why they're mad at him
20) ddrake gets mad defensive
21) I forgot to mention, blount has a field day
22) OWNED
23) A failed attempt to return to original discussion in the thread
24) ddrake: "So "whitening" in the case in which I am using it refers to the values inherent in the musicians' musical ideas. White CULTURE rather than white PEOPLE."
25) Oh no
26) nickalicious and scott seward simmer things down somewhat
27) Perry sums everything up neatly
28) Numerous thread-locking requests go out
29) Oh yeah, there's some stuff about Amiri Baraka in here too (c/o J0hn Darn1elle)
30) Someone named "Big Boi" stomps in, says "prog rap is shit!" only in much wordier terms, resorts to name-dropping the Strokes, then eventually disappears
31) "Ned and his ethugs" are mentioned
32) People start backtracking in an attempt to recap this thread
33) This goes on for a while
34) There is a delightful Popeye intermission
35) An ugly goulash of meta-spastic he-said-he-said "no no no I'M RIGHT I WIN" nonsense and arrogant written-in-stone declarations of what various genres TRULY AND REALLY ARE AND AREN'T, DAMN IT
36) This actually goes on for a while
37)
38) more pictures, which ddrake calls "unclever"
39) see #35
40) I post this
41) I feel dirty

― nate detritus (natedetritus)

scott seward, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 17:53 (twelve years ago) link

dan, i wouldn't worry about it. its all crazytalk.

scott seward, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 17:53 (twelve years ago) link

"But the Amen Break IS chopped; it's a tiny drum break that has been sped up, or slowed down, and recontextualized..."

those are hallmarks of editorials. composition tends to be less dependent on source material. if a song can retain its identity by removing the source material and applying the transformations to something else, that would also be another good test, though it really fails in the case where dr. dre goes out and hires session musicians to recreate the sample because he doesn't want to pay some licensing fee.

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 17:59 (twelve years ago) link

where do you get this nonsense

Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:02 (twelve years ago) link

everything is dependent on source material, whether you're composing for brass or a drum machine or on a laptop

Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:03 (twelve years ago) link

"where do you get this nonsense"
probably some lawrence lessig blog

"everything is dependent on source material, whether you're composing for brass or a drum machine or on a laptop"
it's not dependent if you can swap the material without being destructive to the piece. in those cases the samples/instruments/etc are incidental.

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:06 (twelve years ago) link

define destructive

Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:07 (twelve years ago) link

i'm so confused right now. where is geir, by the way?

scott seward, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:07 (twelve years ago) link

destructive meaning the song falls apart. e.g. singing dogs could use any samples of dogs and it would probably still sound like singing dogs. there wasn't a james brown of dogs in there that really made the song shine.

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:09 (twelve years ago) link

i'm beyond confused now. its like a spiral of confusion. the dogs really lost me.

scott seward, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:11 (twelve years ago) link

i dunno if singing dogs is a good example though, since it's really jingle bells. (though jingle bells remains jingle bells whether it's brass horns or dogs singing it)

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:12 (twelve years ago) link

So when Elisabeth Esselink creates her Solex record from chopped up bits of albums she been unable to sell in her store, what is that? Just "looping sections of music just to sing over?" A creative compositional tool? Editorial? She could swap the drum break she found for this song with the Amen drum break, and then what? I can't follow this at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE8dLFCNfyA&feature=relmfu

Hey Jude, don't make it BAD MENTAL HEALTH (Dan Peterson), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:14 (twelve years ago) link

i'd argue though, that the fact that the singing dogs author chose jingle bells was also incidental. it would have worked just as well if he chose "we wish you a merry bark-mas"

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:14 (twelve years ago) link

what if I sample a brass horn imitating a dog singing jingle bells

over the Funky Drummer break

Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:15 (twelve years ago) link

f f f f f f f f f funky
drummer

iglu ferrignu, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:16 (twelve years ago) link

re: solex, if solex doesn't care where the samples come from, if they are in fact chosen by random process, then it's totally compositional.

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:17 (twelve years ago) link

you have a lot of rules

Original poster long gone I see lol

Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:18 (twelve years ago) link

this thread gets the
http://www.musikiwi.com/design/images/artistes/15725/477772.jpg

i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:19 (twelve years ago) link

amen

Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:21 (twelve years ago) link

can mods change the thread title to "Nunez on Composition"?

i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:22 (twelve years ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0b_9X0xFYs&feature=relmfu

scott seward, Sunday, 15 April 2012 03:41 (twelve years ago) link

scott u just redeemed the existence of this idiotic thread

akadarbarijava (psychgawsple), Saturday, 21 April 2012 22:36 (eleven years ago) link

i dunno.... that stuff is prettttty close to "amen breaks etc" territory!

windjammer voyage (blank), Sunday, 22 April 2012 00:08 (eleven years ago) link

omg not an amen break! how uncreative

akadarbarijava (psychgawsple), Tuesday, 24 April 2012 02:31 (eleven years ago) link

No mention of Public Enemy?

X-101, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 10:20 (eleven years ago) link

4 independent metions of "the bomb squad" and one quote.
walter ruttmann - weekend.
"artist" / "sampler"

iglu ferrignu, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 10:22 (eleven years ago) link

mennnnnnnnnnntions.
how would christian marclay fit in?
i'm not sure i could be arsed to even begin thinking about it

iglu ferrignu, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 10:23 (eleven years ago) link


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.