the most important election of your lifetime: 2012 american general election thread

anyway, i think that this entire debate is going to be academic b/c i think that Obama will win reelection (even if it's too close for comfort).

relevant: http://www.salon.com/2012/04/17/is_obama_no_better_than_the_gop/

Yes, both Obama and McCain will be interventionist. But if one would invade Iran and the other wouldn’t … well, that’s a massive difference, even if both would embark on Libya-type adventures. There’s a good chance that Guantanamo stays open regardless of who is elected, but Romney’s supporters include many who support reinstituting torture; that’s extremely unlikely to be U.S. policy if Obama is reelected. Again, I’d call that a massive difference. On taxes, too, one candidate supports modest increases in tax rates for upper-level taxpayers, while the other favors large tax cuts from current levels; if either party wins a landslide, it’s likely that those positions would be enacted.

in terms of stuff like starting wars, detonating weapons, unbalancing the fragile state of world politics, there's def a better + worse candidate here

See you're going by what pols SAY here, and Obama is just the most prominent, latest example that such shit means nothing. Rombot would govern as closely to Obot as O has to Bushbot. Too close.

That "perfect candidate" shit is another eternal strawman. Yep, PERFECT is the ONLY standard by which Bam falls short!

i hope the mole overlord refuses to sanction massive reeducation torture, my back is still hurting from last week's celebratory beatings

do you realize you have essentially phrased it as "why are these dark fascists inflicting their race war on us?"

oh c'mon man, how is that possible?

they say that both candidates will be exactly the same, but the one promoting the destruction of our mushroom field food silos bc the great mole god will provide scares me. i'm going to vote for the with the eye-gauging platform. i can't see down here anyway and i need food to live.

well, we all know how Obama well has honored his 2008 campaign pledges. perfect ain't even in it, he hasn't even lived up to his own words.

Morbs, I think you have successfully convinced us all that Obama is not perfect. We are in your debt for this. So, if you think we are backsliding on this question, plz, sir, can we have another?

it's kinda nice that obama + romney are even letting us vote instead of just telling us who is the new overseer. i know that it doesn't matter which one i vote for, but it makes me feel like a participant when i pull the poll lever and get an 'i voted' sticker.

Rombot would govern as closely to Obot as O has to Bushbot. Too close.

yeah see this just isn't remotely true. If you think, for example, that Dubya would have handled the Gulf oil spill the way Obama did, you are wrong. Obama also did not initiate a war of convenience that crippled the economy. Obama did not appoint Scalia or Roberts etc etc

what curmudgeon is not convinced of, Aimless, is that opposing Obama = opposing all imperfection.

Shakey, try to imagine the gap between "identical" and "too similsr"

at least Dubya threw Ken Lay under a bus -- where are the Wall Street prosecutions?

i mean, not only are Jon Corzine and Jaime Dimon still walking the earth as free men, they were both seriously mentioned to head the Treasury Department!

Yep, PERFECT is the ONLY standard by which Bam falls short!

I agree that Obama has some shortcomings, some of them he brought, and some because of his fear of the Fox-gargling psychotics of the right and how they may try to undermine him but he is getting us out of Afghanistan. I still support the aid to the Libyan rebels. You cannot know the outcome of a national rebellion but, c'mon, it didn't cost us that much to help them out and I do remember that w/o the help of France, Holland and Spain we wouldn't have won our independence. With what Romney has said and what he owes the baying wolves on the neo-con right, God alone knows what fuckery his administration might get up to.

i just don't want a businessman in the white house

Obama is a business, man

he is getting us out of Afghanistan

oh c'mon -- after sending more troops?!

based on that sliver then Nixon got us out of Vietnam.

he always said he was going to concentrate on Afghanistan. Not that I'm making apologies for all of the other awful things Obama has signed off on.

Nixon DID get us out of Vietnam!

re: Afghanistan it seems abundantly clear to me that Obama can't wait to pull all our troops out and wash his hands of the mess. I fully expect troop withdrawal schedules to go forward as planned.

Bin Laden's dead, Al Qaeda's in disarray, nothing to be gained from prolonged hostilities in Afghanistan

I don't care what he can't wait to do. CUZ HE'S BEEN WAITIN'

Nixon DID get us out of Vietnam!

― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier),

The burglar killed your dog and raped your sister. Thank goodness he's outta the house!

well you know me, I'm not praising Nixon or anything but them's the facts

I fully expect troop withdrawal schedules to go forward as planned.

Especially since the Afghan govmt wants us to keep to them. A precipitous pull-out would have been politically harrowing domestically, destabilizing for Afghanistan and pretty difficult wrt NATO.

In a speech in which he stressed the need for education and opportunity, he contrasted his own life story with that of his likely GOP rival. “I wasn’t born with a silver spoon in my mouth. Michelle wasn’t. Somebody gave us a chance. Just like these folks up here are looking for a chance.” Obama said.

Playing the spoon card! (Don't worry--that was supposed to sound stupid.) I imagine Obama will be very good at needling Romney. How Romney handles it--whether he brushes it aside or continually gets sidetracked by every little barb--may have some bearing on the campaign.

is that you reminding yourself, Mordy?

― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, April 18, 2012 5:08 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark

I was being sarcastic. Are you claiming that a State's electoral votes are assigned by individual districts as opposed to a state wide popular vote? At one point in history maybe, but surely that's not the case in Florida in 2012, right?

(I'm sure someone will helpfully correct me if I've been laboring under an electoral misunderstanding.)

I was returning the sarcasm, and, yes, you're right. However, the resilience of the blue vote in the counties in which I live relieves me of the pressure of voting for a Dem.

for prez, that is

why does the county that you are in matter more than the county anyone else is in, when it comes to a national election

Moral suasion.

Obama has governed to the right of my ideal, and there are some specific instances about which I am v upset, but most of the protests I've seen here recently are a bunch of bullshit.

Just curious, Obama haters, what modern president would you have voted for?

at least Dubya threw Ken Lay under a bus -- where are the Wall Street prosecutions?

^this is a dumb-ass comparison

Rombot would govern as closely to Obot as O has to Bushbot. Too close.

^who would you vote for? Barr? Aquaman?

would vote for aquaman

at least Dubya threw Ken Lay under a bus -- where are the Wall Street prosecutions?

^this is a dumb-ass comparison

how so? and why hasn't anyone involved in the financial meltdown been thrown in jail yet?!? where are the DOJ or SEC investigations -- that's right, THERE HAVEN'T BEEN ANY.

difficult to do when the markets control everything

I'm down with people being severely disappointed in Obama, but I think its largely an extension of late capitalism.

but hey, i hear that the prosecutions and other good things are coming as long as Barry gets reelected ... after the campaign checks from Goldman Sachs and the hedge-funders clear.

yeah capitalism sucks balls

and the Republicans have been (at best) repugnant and (at worst) batshit crazy for as long as i can remember ... that hasn't changed, and it won't change any time soon.

what has changed, though, is that Democratic voters have constantly lowered their expectations to the point where their standard-bearer is essentially little more than Bush-Cheney v. 2.0 -- and they're making excuses for it.

I'm sure W would've gotten around to repealing DADT eventually.

hedge-funders have gay kids.

and daughters who can get knocked up.

we need a primitive revolution

and thank the Congress for repealing DADT, not Obama.

yeah they overrode his veto

Obamacare is letting me stay on my parents' insurance; will vote w/ my craven self-interest in mind.

hedge funders brought gay marriage to New York state, strangely