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ravebusters - mi-trax

Wonderful!

Tobias Rapp (Tobias Rapp), Monday, 6 March 2006 18:46 (eighteen years ago) link

you guys make me feel guilty about liking justice, mstrkrft and digitalism. do those things fall strictly within the purview of the asymmetrical haircut crew at trash? good mix though, stir : )

firstworldman (firstworldman), Monday, 6 March 2006 18:47 (eighteen years ago) link

yes they do, sorry dude

Yawn (Wintermute), Monday, 6 March 2006 18:52 (eighteen years ago) link

this might be slightly off topic since Tyler didnt link to it directly, but i like his old dub techno mix a lot

Yawn (Wintermute), Monday, 6 March 2006 18:53 (eighteen years ago) link

.you guys make me feel guilty about liking justice, mstrkrft and digitalism

i was just joshing.

stirmonster (stirmonster), Monday, 6 March 2006 18:57 (eighteen years ago) link

at any rate, it sometimes sounds different in 1 ear than it does in the other. maybe i ought to get that checked out.

firstworldman (firstworldman), Monday, 6 March 2006 19:01 (eighteen years ago) link

stirmonster's mix is the good. we need to engineer some sort of battle and have him and frenchbloke keep trying to top one another.

Lukas (lukas), Monday, 6 March 2006 21:43 (eighteen years ago) link

stir might just win it. although i look after my vinyl *

frenchbloke (frenchbloke), Monday, 6 March 2006 21:50 (eighteen years ago) link

mstrkrft and justice suck, especially justice, wtf do people like about them, I just don't get it. mstrkrft I can't remember how they sound but I know I have flicked on their tunes on juno etc and not remembered them.

digitalism on the other hand are one of the few decent pop electrohouse acts, sometimes it worries me how underground it's all gone again.....

Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 6 March 2006 21:51 (eighteen years ago) link

not for my own sake, I think "I like this deeper electrohouse and more technoey stuff, but without the crossover what will become of it all".

Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 6 March 2006 21:52 (eighteen years ago) link

Speaking of which:

http://s26.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1FEUMIMVO1YQ40X8YYDRQ75DB5

purple haze - eden
nathan fake - underberg
daso - daybreak
ernesto & bastian - who's the starter (phynn mix)
allure - the loves we lost
tiesto - adagio for strings (phynn mix)
andy whitby & dark by design - nitemare
carl nicholson - blueprint (tara's theme)

nice new dance, good for listening or dancing.

dog latin (dog latin), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 09:26 (eighteen years ago) link

oh yeh, extrawelt's "soopertrack" is in there too.

dog latin (dog latin), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 13:01 (eighteen years ago) link

Is there a good online tutorial for Sony Acid? Thanks

Lloyd Bonecutter (Lloyd Bonecutter), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 14:04 (eighteen years ago) link

most online tutorials for acid are long winded and un-necessary. i started to do a numpty's guide covering the basics using acid 4 ( v5 has too many bugs re vst instruments and so on ). if i ever get round to finishing it, i'll upload the thing as a pdf. it's quite simple once you get used to the interface and what things do. i'll gladly assist with any queries and whatnot.

frenchbloke (frenchbloke), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 14:16 (eighteen years ago) link

I'm using v5 but not noticing the bugs. I only use it for sequencing wavs and mp3s though. Still use Soundforge for editing, chopping, adding fx, compressing and what have you.

I've been wanting to do a big random Frenchblokey mix for ages now, using a lot of the stuff I got from him (ha ha) but I am stuck doing these silly year by year things for the moment (1992 one is nearly finished).

Sororah T Massacre (blueski), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 14:19 (eighteen years ago) link

Thanks. I think the things I want to do with it are fairly simple (basically mixing/blending mp3s into one larger radio show-esque mp3) but I'm pretty easily intimidated by new programs.

Lloyd Bonecutter (Lloyd Bonecutter), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 14:23 (eighteen years ago) link

open track one that you want to use. you'll get the beatmapper wizard thing. click next. use zoom to find the downbeat / first beat - don't trust what it guesses for you - use the + to zoom in. then next, it'll guess a bar (it assumes all music is 4/4) fix it, use zoom to double check, then next then go through the whole thing to make sure it doesn't drop out hideously at any point. (this can be fixed later) then finish - do the same for any tracks you want to mix it with.
use the pen /pencil tool to draw the track out. where you fancy the 2nd track to come in, draw the second one on. zoom in to adjust, jiggle around and that should do it. it's easier than the above - just too many words for the clicks of a mouse.

frenchbloke (frenchbloke), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 14:40 (eighteen years ago) link

Wow, thanks a lot! I really appreciate the assistance. I'm going to play around with it tonight for a few hours and see if I can get it to do what I want. Like I said, just pretty simple stuff.

Lloyd Bonecutter (Lloyd Bonecutter), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 14:43 (eighteen years ago) link

I never use the beatmapper wizard either. actually there's a lot in Acid i never bother with. maybe this is why it takes me so long to make a mix.

Sororah T Massacre (blueski), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 14:44 (eighteen years ago) link

actually the beatmapper wizard was how i discovered the stranglers waltzinblack thing turning into a schaffel / glitterbeat nightmare and the kraftwerk robots waltz thing. - i was hitting the next / next bit checking the accuracy of the 4/4 sections.

frenchbloke (frenchbloke), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 14:47 (eighteen years ago) link

Yeh I like me some beatmapper wizard, but sometimes when I press "NEXT" it throws everything slightly out and i need to reposition it all again.

dog latin (dog latin), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 15:14 (eighteen years ago) link

i just drag the next track onto the score, cut off everything before a point where you can see/hear rhythm pattern starting and then enter a new BPM for it until i can see/hear it matching with the previous track adequately, then restore the track's intro if required. this takes around a minute or two of fiddling usually, unless parts of the track need to re-arranged, cut etc.

Sororah T Massacre (blueski), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 15:18 (eighteen years ago) link

yair that's the original way of doing it stevem, and possibly more precise, if a bit fiddly. give beatmapper a go, it takes a while to get used to but it's pretty quick and effective.

dog latin (dog latin), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 15:31 (eighteen years ago) link

downloaded droids first mix last night and the bit where these two combine:

(35:17) 8. Seefeel - Charlotte’s Mouth - Too Pure
(40:44) 9. µ-Ziq - The Wheel - Rephlex

made me happy this morning on the way to work. so thanks for that.

koogs (koogs), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 15:41 (eighteen years ago) link

give beatmapper a go, it takes a while to get used to but it's pretty quick and effective.

I FEAR CHANGE

Sororah T Massacre (blueski), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 15:42 (eighteen years ago) link

Nice one koogs - thats my favourite bit of that mix as well.

FWIW - all the mixes we put up on the blog are all good old fashioned live (mostly) vinyl mixing. Nuthin wrong with computers - but i do have my doubts about Acid though - the older versions used to do horrible things compression-wise...

droid, Tuesday, 7 March 2006 15:55 (eighteen years ago) link

been using acid since version one. v3 was a revelation. if only they offered ape / flac support. it'll only ever sound as good as your source material. i'm still waiting for stir to teach me the mysterious and magickal art of vinyl mixing, been waiting for about 15 years, my time must surely be near. *

frenchbloke (frenchbloke), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 16:11 (eighteen years ago) link

just out of curiosity, does this mean most of you are making these mixes on your computers? for some reason this makes me feel better about my vinyl mixing skills, as i just assumed you were all these incredible mixologists.

firstworldman (firstworldman), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 16:25 (eighteen years ago) link

not sure about them up there ^ ^ ^ but i do, hence my "as i'm not a dj, does it count?" post up there.

frenchbloke (frenchbloke), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 16:35 (eighteen years ago) link

my mix that I posted here was done by hand. hence the crap sound quality etc! recording from md to computer. I have another longer one which is in post production at the moment, ie, making up for recording from md to computer, not fixing errors or anything!

Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 16:38 (eighteen years ago) link

I make a point of staying away from computer mixing - for mainly indefensible uber-nerd-anal-DJ type reasons...

droid, Tuesday, 7 March 2006 16:40 (eighteen years ago) link

i'm not saying that any method is less valid than the other... i do stuff in ableton as well as vinyl stuff.

firstworldman (firstworldman), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 16:42 (eighteen years ago) link

most of the mix i put up was done on a computer with a couple of records being mixed in too. i should point out that i have been mixing records since the late 80's so do know how to do it that way but i only have one working turntable which makes mixing with records at home a tad hard.

frenchbloke - i'll give you one lesson for every 1000 records of mine you alphabetise.

stirmonster (stirmonster), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 16:44 (eighteen years ago) link

I think both are fine, though I definitely am dubious about people, or at least MOST people I've heard, using ableton for house/techno/minimal straight up, is there an actual advantage in what you can do besides beatmatch?

Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 16:49 (eighteen years ago) link

yeah, i'd be dubious about that too unless they were incorporating a lot of their own production into the set.

stirmonster (stirmonster), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 16:59 (eighteen years ago) link

that's what Hawtin does these days right?

but surely there's an advantage over vinyl anyway in practical terms. if it's as easy/easier to work that way why not do a live set in one style entirely without vinyl?

Sororah T Massacre (blueski), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 17:03 (eighteen years ago) link

chop things up, sometimes ridiculously so. and not have to get fingerprints over vinyl. i'd never use acid live - far too unpredictable, tho i did use v1 and v2 live at optimo many years ago. i'd fiddle with things as it played. (and subsequently hope the pc didn't crash). i've yet to play with ableton 5 and tracktion looks like some wacky cross between fl studio and acid and doesn't like my external sound machine, so it was uninstalled.

most ableton things i've heard sounded like a twitch wannabe (sorry stir) - whereas you can do allsorts in ableton, you can physically chop up the waveform onscreen and re-arrange it in acid 9and i daresay any similar program)( i re-jigged sxpress' hey music lover so that it played a slightly different tune for the xfm thing i did or you can go to extremes of chopping out every nth note and re-joining it to interesting results - turning 4/4 into 3/4 or 7/8 and what have you. takes bloody ages tho)

frenchbloke (frenchbloke), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 17:03 (eighteen years ago) link

i'd fiddle with things as it played. (and subsequently hope the pc didn't crash)

good god man...if Acid's no good for realtime mixing/cueing, how'd you manage?

Sororah T Massacre (blueski), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 17:06 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't know, my primitive answer though would be (a) it doesn't feel as nice and (b) people aren't fully confident in the sound quality.

And maybe (c) ableton mixes just sound different or a possible (d) the temptation to blend tunes together seamlessly in the awful Sasha Involver way is very strong when using Ableton, who's going to use it and go "ok I mixed these two records now I stop". Of course this is where the argument gets weird cos it's almost like I'm arguing that the limitations of human mixing on decks are a positive thing when they limit those of us that are not creative enough and would use the limitless possibilites of Ableton in a limited way! Myself included but that's why I've not got Ableton yet, I don't believe I can produce! (not yet anyhow)

Some of the above are reasons and some are just my reservations, of course!

x-post it's meant to be good for re-edits though, which seems a slightly more universal use and one I'd be into.

Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 17:08 (eighteen years ago) link

hawtin uses final scratch so he's still mixing, it's just that he's mixing audio files rather than records.

x post

and ronan, it is wonderful for re edits (which is what i mainly use it for). what used to take me a day to do on a hardware sampler now takes an hour.

stirmonster (stirmonster), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 17:11 (eighteen years ago) link

Yeh, I use Acid/Soundforge exclusively, mostly because it never started as "wow I wanna be a DJ", more "I want to make tapes for my mates without gaps in them and loads of cheeky segues and stuff". I'd love to learn vinyl mixing but that would mean buying decks and then shelling out for vinyl, of which I currently own little. Much easier to rip from CD or download the tracks and have fun mulching them all together. For me anyway. I guess it's a completely different art, especially seeing as Acid isn't realtime or anything.

dog latin (dog latin), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 17:13 (eighteen years ago) link

hawtin uses final scratch so he's still mixing, it's just that he's mixing audio files rather than records.

sorry i thought that's what was meant re Albeton-only sets too - live mixing of uncompressed digital audio

fair point re 'too many cooks/over-egging' Ronan - the temptation is there for so many

what about just using a wav editor eg Sound Forge for making edits? what advantages would Abelton have over that?

Sororah T Massacre (blueski), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 17:14 (eighteen years ago) link

stir, how much longer until you teach me the dark and mysterious vinyl magick ?

*

frenchbloke (frenchbloke), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 17:17 (eighteen years ago) link

i've never used soundforge so i don't know but the main advantage with using ableton is probably that you can fix timing errors. a lot of the things i play have live drums which don't stay in time and are VERY hard to mix so i'll start by fixing all them so they are rigidly in time. then i'll record the track into the sequencer side and start cutting and pasting sections, adding effects, re eq'ing and sometimes replace the kik drum or add an additional one.

but i guess it comes down to what you are familiar with. i know ableton inside out so that's all i use now.

stirmonster (stirmonster), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 17:24 (eighteen years ago) link

Obligatory Ableton horror story...

I've been using Ableton in live settings, mainly for short sets, for about eight months. Recently I landed a couple of weekly residencies, one of which is geared towards more eclectic music programming. I decided to try Ableton for a full five hour night last Friday with disastrous results. About an hour into it, the program started randomly dropping out the sound. The dropouts ranged from microsecond glitches to 1 or 2 seconds of dead silence. Really embarrassing.

I bought Serato the next day, played at the club that night and had zero problems. knock. on. wood. Ableton has been relegated to the studio computer only.

I can speak from personal experience when I say that there's definitely a different energy with Ableton mixing in a live setting. The best way I can describe it is that the crowd > DJ feedback loop feels mediated by the computer. I don't get that feeling with Serato or Final Scratch though.

jeffery (jeffery), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 17:25 (eighteen years ago) link

dude played with us last week and used serato.

pretty much is the exact same as someone on the decks with real vinyl, as far as I could see.

Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 17:29 (eighteen years ago) link

The dropouts ranged from microsecond glitches to 1 or 2 seconds of dead silence.

that sounds like you need more ram. thankfully this has only happened to me once in recent memory and that was the other week in texas where there was so much bass vibration in the booth that my powerbook started freaking out. thankfully they were a very forgiving crowd.

there is a different energy from using ableton in a live setting which is why i use vinyl too but i think once you know your way round the software you learn little ways to make it sound, um, er, more jacking i guess is the best way to describe it.

stirmonster (stirmonster), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 17:32 (eighteen years ago) link

i'm glad i don't dj. that and the fact i only have one turntable. and there's not much call to play daf 7" singles to the public

frenchbloke (frenchbloke), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 17:32 (eighteen years ago) link

so i'll start by fixing all them so they are rigidly in time

cool! do you do this by manually cutting and pasting bits of the wav/data? does Ableton quantize the file so you know where to reposition snares or whatever by looking as well as hearing?

Sororah T Massacre (blueski), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 17:32 (eighteen years ago) link

ableton uses a thing called warp marking where the audio file is kind of fluid. you literally drag and move the beats one at a time until they are lined up with the grid of a rigidly in time 4/4 beat. i usually have a basic 4/4 beat playing along to check i have got it totally right audibly as well as visually. ableton 5 has a function that does this automatically but i find it a bit hit or miss and prefer to do it manually. i should point out that it is incredibly tedious to do but worth it for the results.

stirmonster (stirmonster), Tuesday, 7 March 2006 17:39 (eighteen years ago) link


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