not that I really believe in comparative evil but do you seriously think that manipulating a child is run-of-the-mill bad parenting whereas flirting with an adult is evil?
― raw feel vegan (silby), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:40 (twelve years ago) link
having been raised by decent but flawed parents, i feel that "harming the innocent" is an unavoidable part of the process. what betty's done is shitty behavior, but not some high crime. sally will get over it.
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:40 (twelve years ago) link
smh
― polyphonic, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:41 (twelve years ago) link
look, it's not like she was trying to get Sally to say that Don was a rapist or pedophile. This is some pretty minor manipulation.
― sarahell, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:41 (twelve years ago) link
i still think that don is the show's only real villain
http://images.wikia.com/madmen/images/a/a5/Pete-Campbell.jpg
― poxen, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:41 (twelve years ago) link
there are far worse things you can do. like this just seems like garden variety bad parenting that lots of people in that situation do from time to time.
There's a sliding scale of that stuff. Surprising your 12 year old daughter with the fact her father had a wife she didn't know about and then sending her off to ask her new stepmother is some low down shit.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:41 (twelve years ago) link
i don't think any of these things mentioned are evil, but i do think manipulating a kid like that is horrible
― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:41 (twelve years ago) link
it's not like she was making it up though!
― sarahell, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:42 (twelve years ago) link
to me Betty's just getting worse because whereas before she could kid herself that she had some kind of perfect life and was better than everyone, now she is keenly aware that she doesn't have everything she wants, it's harder to pretend so she's filling the cracks in her dream with food, AND she's using her own children to kick back against the things that are making her unhappy...she's never not going to blame everyone else around her for robbing her of her dreams and she's never not going to punish herself and her children for it
but I have never liked her character and I will never stan for her so that's just my 2 cents
super-editorialized, lol
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:42 (twelve years ago) link
I mean yes Sally will get over it but that doesn't mean that manipulating your 12-year-old daughter in order to disrupt your ex-husband's new relationship and in the process undermining your daughter's relationship with her father and stepmother isn't fucked up!
― raw feel vegan (silby), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:42 (twelve years ago) link
I mean at least Betty didn't stab Sally, right! She's got that going for her!
― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:43 (twelve years ago) link
i mean, yeah, it was total shit-stirring, but, at what age is it appropriate for her to be told about it?
― sarahell, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:43 (twelve years ago) link
why doesn't Betty just tell Sally about Don's real identity! No big deal!
betty's behavior was worse, no question. but i think don's treatment of betty over the course of their marriage was just as bad, and way more sustained.
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:44 (twelve years ago) link
i don't think Betty gets to decide when Sally learns about it. you're being super obtuse.
― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:44 (twelve years ago) link
The stuff that happens to you when you are a kid can leave scars. It doesn't have to be a crime to fuck you up.
― polyphonic, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:44 (twelve years ago) link
comparative evil 101
― Mordy, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:44 (twelve years ago) link
12 is an appropriate age, but Betty knew the story and could've told her right then without leaving her hanging and having all sorts of misdirected anger.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:44 (twelve years ago) link
everyone ends up scarred - that's life!
― sarahell, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:45 (twelve years ago) link
yeah it's totally obtuse to suggest that Betty's goal was to have a mature conversation with Sally about Don's family history
― raw feel vegan (silby), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:45 (twelve years ago) link
well, i think she has just as much right to make that decision as don, frankly. my objection is to the way she went about it and her motivations for doing so. i wouldn't quibble with her "right" to tell anyone she pleases the truth about don and dick whitman.
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:46 (twelve years ago) link
if Betty had been motivated simply by a desire for Sally to know the truth, she could have just told her herself. instead she deliberately manufactured a situation that would disrupt Don's home/family
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:46 (twelve years ago) link
what's shitty is that Betty used her own jealousy over Megan and Don's life/apartment/Megan's semi naked body/whatever as the fuel to put her daughter in the middle of an issue that doesn't even INVOLVE Don's first wife.
it's not even Sally knowing. it's the motivations and the way she did it and WHY she did that's just so...Betty
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:47 (twelve years ago) link
Yay it's Strawman time! Whee! Nobody said "Betty's goal was to have a mature conversation with Sally about Don's family history"! Strawman time!
― sarahell, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:47 (twelve years ago) link
that's life!
― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:47 (twelve years ago) link
(well Betty may have been involved inasmuch as Don may have technically been a bigamist I forget how that all worked)
― raw feel vegan (silby), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:48 (twelve years ago) link
The only shitty thing about Betty's behaviour was telling Sally to ask Megan about it, imo
― poxen, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:48 (twelve years ago) link
― sarahell, Tuesday, May 15, 2012 4:42 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
at what age is it appropriate for her to be told about it?
― sarahell, Tuesday, May 15, 2012 4:43 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― raw feel vegan (silby), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:49 (twelve years ago) link
a Strawball's chance in hell ...
and yeah, Don had to divorce Anna in order to marry Betty.
― sarahell, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:49 (twelve years ago) link
anyway clearly the depravity of this situation is up for grabs for some of you I know longer care
Except Don didn't actually tell Sally the story. Is Sally going to be more or less fucked up thinking Don 'had to marry Anna' vs if BEtty had told her he switched dog tags to run from his family etc
My parents lobbed shit through me alll the time when I was a child. Fuck, they still do. I am 29 years old and I still have to tell my family not to insult the absent person to me. This is a thing.
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:49 (twelve years ago) link
That was about 30 xposts but y'all are typing too quickly today
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:50 (twelve years ago) link
well, exactly. she was trying to engineer a situation that would fuck with megan and don, and didn't seem too worried about the fact that sally might get hurt in the process.
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:51 (twelve years ago) link
know no
― raw feel vegan (silby), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:51 (twelve years ago) link
^^ exactly. I'd even say it's more normal than any "Oh you simply MUST thank Megan for helping you on that project, sweetie!" like a kid doesn't understand that doublespeak (i.e. they do)
― poxen, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:52 (twelve years ago) link
if BEtty had told her he switched dog tags to run from his family
tbh I have never really understood what Don explicitly gained from switching identities. I mean, surely he could have just run off from his family and changed his name, etc. This was not uncommon. Did he get Don's bank account and house and shit? I guess that would be a big deal.
xp
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:52 (twelve years ago) link
Wasn't the real Don about to end his tour? He got to go home early?
― sarahell, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:54 (twelve years ago) link
For a while now I've found it to be kind of implicit that Betty doesn't like Sally. (not sure about the other kids.)
― ryan, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:54 (twelve years ago) link
I just feel bad for Sally.
― Leslie Mann: Boner Machine (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:54 (twelve years ago) link
Huh! That's interesting. (That Betty might not like Sally)
― poxen, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:55 (twelve years ago) link
Don gained a body that would get sent back to Shitckick, Wherever and get buried in the ground for one thing
― raw feel vegan (silby), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:55 (twelve years ago) link
xp That was what I thought - go home early, whereas Dick had just got there, more or less?
Betty is probably jealous of Sally w/r/t her & Megan's relationship too. My Mom has been mad at me and said some damned cruel things, intending it to hurt -me.- But she also lobbed some slow pitches to explode once I got to my Dad's house. But she also loves me, or at least she's lead me to believe so and let's not debate that part. ;)
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:56 (twelve years ago) link
Sally isn't as easy to deal with as the other two
― sarahell, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:58 (twelve years ago) link
Betty is totally jealous/resentful of Sally this has been obvious for a long time
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:58 (twelve years ago) link
of her relationship with Don, of her relationship with grandpa Gene, etc
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:59 (twelve years ago) link
Betty even tried to horn in on Sally's therapist
― raw feel vegan (silby), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:59 (twelve years ago) link
hahaha
― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 21:00 (twelve years ago) link
agree with this, but i don't know that it's so extreme as "totally jealous/resentful"
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 21:01 (twelve years ago) link
She also made Sally stop hanging out with Glenn, although that one might not be such a bad idear.
― polyphonic, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 21:02 (twelve years ago) link
Sally robbed Betty of her potential cougar action
sorry
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 21:05 (twelve years ago) link