Were the synth/post-punk bands of them early eighties 'detached'...

This is interesting for me because I'm wondering -- I'm not really positive, now that I think about it! -- if this means something for me in turn. I don't think it does in that I don't care about the intent so much as the results and if I like them, pretty much what Chuck was saying. I figure you can be a good actor and bore me easily and a crap actor and be pretty compelling.

-- Ess (ecclestonsa...), July 31st, 2003.

Good call. The detachment heard in some (not all) early 80's technopop was a naive futurism, often inspired by the new synth textures the bands were just beginning to discover.

As has been pointed out, most of the pop around this time with synths was glamorous and passionate rather than detached (eg, Soft Cell, ABC).

Psychological detachment also existed however, in the music of the likes of Gary Numan, early 80's Kraftwerk, DAF and John Foxx (for example). This was superficially of the kind that Ess points out, but I believe that, underneath, it bespoke a personal sense of alienation that was still extremely passionate, but hid the passion under a flat exterior as a kind of defence, from where it occasionally erupted as a deeply romantic and heartfelt human sentiment, or, less purely, as violent anti-machine paranoia.

The roots of what's happening now can be found in Grace Jones' stylised detachment, and, especially, in the movie Liquid Sky - terrible though this movie was, it's a blueprint for a certain attitude amongst many musicians.

i) What is "postpunk"? I've always understood the term to refer to guitar rock that evolved primarily from a punk rock influence base rather than more classic roots - in a narrow sense to refer to early British stuff like Joy Division, early Wire, early PiL; in a broader sense to include American hardcore, no wave, and indie rock and British indie. I never thought of Duran Duran or Soft Cell or Depeche Mode (!) as postpunk per se. Why are they postpunk rather than post-disco or post-Kraftwerk or maybe post-Abba or something? And if they are postpunk, is something like Roxette in the postpunk tradition too? What about, say, Madonna? She seems like at least as good a reference/comparison point for Duran Duran as Second Edition.

ii) I do not agree that that particular time and place is "such the whipping boy to this day" if that means that it is unique in the level of criticism it receives. I don't think, for example, that I've ever read a critical word about A Flock of Seagulls on this board (while some of the biggest guitar pop singles bands from the 70s and 80s like Styx or Kiss or Bon Jovi - or Kansas - get beaten up all the time. One would be hard pressed to find a favourable word about Eric Clapton, esp post-Layla). It's not revered in every circle but I don't see that it enjoys less critical favour than prog or hair metal or adult contemporary or AOR or a number of other genres.

iii) EC, that is a good story - ironically, a lot of people treat AOR the same way. My Dylan-loving popular music prof in the past term used almost the exact same words to describe Rush.

[applause]

I think colin is otm with this - and a lot of it, i don't think, is even naive.

I do see the detatched feeling/mannerisms/attitude in a lot of 80s synth stuff, but it usually makes me think its covering up something else, it sort of exposes some type of vulnerability or something. Somehow that makes a lot of the more cheesy stuff a little bit more endearing somehow. Take Kraftwerk. I know they aren't particularly a synthpop band (I mean, they are but you know) but I think they really have the *detatched* attitude down (I sort of think we need to pin down what we think this *detatchedness* is though), but so much of their music is really touching and beautiful, even while its cold and synthetic. Of course its only in the listener's perception - I've no idea what Gary Numan or OMD or any of them were actually thinking, but I think what I feel is just as important was what they were REALLY feeling.

Hmmm, that said, I think a problem is that we're talking about a zillion bands here.

(This statement can approach banality if I'm not too careful, since most good music does something like this.)

this thread reminds me of something i wrote about dmx krew way back in 2000 (little did i know what an onslaught of 80's revisionism awaited me in the future), but i can't remember how full of shit i was or even if i made sense and i can no longer read the village voice with the browser i use so who knows. but i can provide a link. i do remember thinking that a lot of 80's synth stuff was a great reflection of the fear people felt about the future and technology. as it turns out, they were right to be afraid.

Why? And more importantly, how?

Especially a band like Soft Cell, whose over-the-top lyrics are delivered in a theatrical way that is both sincere and detached--the very essence of camp.

There must exist a G3irbot somewhere who would argue that.