Mad Men on AMC • Fifth Season Thread

i think it's interesting to point out the fact that soap-opera-like dramas have recently become widely popular by managing to distance themselves from the scoffed-at genre without giving up its essential character and appeal.

yes. I think it's interesting to look at the ways they distance themselves from shows like Dallas and Dynasty.

in EL comics srs critical discourse there's only TCJ and IJOCA, and you excluded academia, so that counts out IJOCA, and TCJ got fkn CANCELLED three years ago*, so you are talking out of your windflappy arse wrt "huge". if you're not, then cite your other examples

*Groth's bookstore reboot last year was a success, but that could be largely bcz Amazon were selling it at 30% of cover. anyway bringing it back as a once-a-year publication puts it on the level of an academic journal, and certainly goes against "huge."

The new website edition is great, of course, but it's literally comicscomics.blogspot.com with a CMS

i dunno, students read the Maus books as literature in college classes; Dan Clowes' stuff is being shown at a local art museum.

hate to break it to you but college classes are academia

and "a local art museum"* is not "huge" on a global scale

and neither of those are critical culture.

*(the Parille/Buenaventura is coming out on ACA, which puts it on exactly the same footing as the Hignite/Crane Xaime joint from 2010 [which I picked up remaindered in an uni bookshop last week, lol])

how are academia and an art museum not part of "critical culture"?

anyway, comics vs. romance novels isn't a fair comparison, as "comics" is a medium, and "romance novel" is only a genre.

exactly, and the web is littered with serious, smart and informed comics crit/appreciation. we've even got a board for comics here. publishers like fantagraphics and D&Q exist to satisfy the demand for literate, artistically sophisticated comics. graphic novels get coverage in the new york times sunday books section. movies of all sorts are regularly based on comics and are taken as seriously as films of any other sort. the importance of superheroes as 20th century icons and the "brilliance" of writers like grant morrison and alan moore are often mentioned in the mainstream press. comic books have an increasingly respectable place in the pop discourse - even as comics publishers struggle to survive in the digital age.

none of this is really true of romance novels and soap operas, especially if we define these things narrowly as harlequin-style novels and daytime soaps. outside their own fandom, they're ignored to the extent that they aren't derided. it seems to be generally assumed that they're worthless, but it's hard to say, because there's so little mainstream criticism devoted to them as they currently exist. they're invisible culture, generally regarded as worthless and disposable junk just as comics were up until the late 20th century.

anyway, comics vs. romance novels isn't a fair comparison, as "comics" is a medium, and "romance novel" is only a genre.

otm, good point. i was accepting the comparison for argument's sake, since mordy brought it up a while back. even if we adjust the frame to take "superhero comics" as an equivalent to romance novels and daytime soaps, i think the former are treated with a great deal more respect than the latter in the pop-critical discourse.

lol, my previous post beginning w/ "exactly..." was a response to sarahell:

i dunno, students read the Maus books as literature in college classes; Dan Clowes' stuff is being shown at a local art museum.

are the Twilight books considered romance novels?

my instinct is to say "no", that they're generally viewed as young adult fantasy novels ("for girls"), but they're clearly a hybrid of that and the romance novel.

haha, i'm just pulling a you and playing devil's advocate!

lol, i think this discussion is horribly annoying to everyone who isn't me anyway

i'm not annoyed by it, but maybe we should get back to Joan airplane gifs

well your continued discussion of the critical legitimacy of comics is horribly annoying to most ppl

you seem to be easily annoyed, call all destroyer

lol when was the last time we even interacted, sarahell?

i think it was on the knoxville thread where you said some perfectly decent other ilxor was the worst poster ever and you were annoyed. it was about a year ago, though!

lol

it was the max doing coke with Bugs Bunny day!

well your continued discussion of the critical legitimacy of comics is horribly annoying to most ppl

― call all destroyer, Thursday, May 24, 2012 7:58 PM (6 minutes ago)

the voice of the (most) people

Wow what on earth are you guys talking about

soaps, supes, etc

seems kinda off topic

it got that way, yah

remember season 1 harry, who, upon cheating on his marriage for the first time, did (what i interpreted as) all the 'right things,' ie demonstrating seemingly sincere remorse and waiting patiently and humbly to be let back home? what happened to that guy? when exactly did harry become so... lecherous?

paul's line about no one liking him was amazing. story wise there wasn't a lot to his arc that demanded he specifically be brought back; the whole hare krishna thing could technically have been done with any "former sterling cooper employee x, now down on his luck." but there were echoes of his old pathos and ill concealed desperation to be well regarded that made the whole thing more meaningful.

i've always understood it to be a meta joke that don and joan haven't ever hooked up because it would be too obvious? and i'm fine with them dancing around that, as they did in this episode, but i really don't want to see an actual romantic arc between them...

also i can't tell what they're building up to with don and megan. but i like that megan is making don consider how he wants to balance his life, whereas previously if, for example, he became frustrated with his home life, he would throw all his eggs in the career basket and wait for that to fulfill him. (and that sort of behavior, of course, is betty's m.o.)

i'm fine with them dancing around that, as they did in this episode

I never get a WILL THEY/WON'T THEY feeling from scenes with Don and Joan, but I also didn't expect Lane to impulsively kiss Joan a few weeks ago. So yeah, I hope Weiner don't throw that curveball. He's probably smart enough to ever even think about it.

*never even

I thought Lane's impulsive kiss was a pretty great moment.

The Lane kiss was great, kind of like he was completing the act--he defeated the enemy and now was getting to kiss the girl THE END.

So last season when Megan said that her mother's skin care regime was just to splash cold water on her face.... we saw all the make-up her mother wears a few episodes ago. So was that just a lie? There is no way splashing cold water on her face will get all that stuff off. So was she being a bit strategic then?

Her mom seems like a "do as I say, not as I do" sort.

i bet when they wrote that line of megan's they didn't even know where the character was going, let alone that her mother would turn out to be famous actor julia ormond

that or megan is a stupid lying bitch i hate her!!!

Of course she was lying--wouldn't you if you came from such miserable stock?

But really, goole otm.

I'd choose Megan's mom over Megan solely for animalistic reasons.

megan is a stupid lying bitch i hate her!!!
megan is a stupid lying bitch i hate her!!!
megan is a stupid lying bitch i hate her!!!

julia ormond vs freddie mercury

In a real soap opera, the main character's marriage would not have taken place off-screen between seasons. It would have been milked for all it was worth onscreen.

of course, of course. this is fauxp opera.

what kind of wedding did don and megan have, anyway?

a soapy one

what kind of wedding did don and megan have, anyway?

― phantompenguin, Sunday, May 27, 2012 1:25 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

a fictional one.

just rewatched this, Megan's quote is "i think you've seen most of it" which I am definitely taking as:
1) "since you just walked in without being invited"
2) "but you'll never see the bedroom"

Why "you will never see the bedroom"?

Creepy, creepy Pete.

I want him to be disemboweled slowly and painfully.

Can we go back to that "sociopath" discussion?

this thread is going to be 'fun' this week

"you will never see the bedroom" because you ain't never gonna have that man ever again and i will

When this show _is_ soap opera, it is terrible shitty soap opera. This was bad pretty much start to finish this week.

Are we ready to dub this the best season yet? Because I am.

This was bad pretty much start to finish this week.

?!