the most important election of your lifetime: 2012 american general election thread

'rizer lovin' the Imperial Presidency

this really is peripherally related to the thunderous bore of an election, or should be.

would be much more forceful if it came from someone with moral principles.

now same-sex marriage strangely comes to mind...

McCain's denounciation would be much more forceful if it came from someone with moral principles.

It would be even more forceful if intentions mattered.

i disagree, tbh. when it comes to clandestine operations sanctioned by the administration, it seems appropriate for the white house to decide what to reveal and when to reveal it.

You mean you don't want to meet this generation's Fawn Hall? I can't wait.

It irritates me that Bradley Manning matters only as a pawn in the Dem-GOP scrimmage over principles both parties share, that's for sure.

i just mean that i'm somewhat willing to grant the administration the license to reveal the general scope of clandestine operations (on a big picture, "here's more or less what we did" level, without naming names specifically endangering anyone). the executive's license to reveal is much less troubling to me than its license to conceal.

and the factor of "We can't say this exists in court, but psssst, we did THIS badass kill"?

they reveal and conceal in different places, always.

sure, i'm not saying that this bit is transparency is a great thing. it's obviously little more than horn-tooting.

http://imgur.com/a/1X9Hp

I loled

lol @ piss children

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVCMetPr-uk

PissDude Malone

has there been a grimmer moment in american politics in the last 30-odd years than right now, and if so when was it?

the Jim Crow era was pretty grim (esp for African-Americans) and lasted more than 30 years. though the past 30 years has sucked pretty hard.

my question was whether there has been a worse _moment_ in the past 30 years (since the early 80s).

Man, 2004 seemed a lot worse. I will take Obama over Kerry and Romney over Bush Jr any day of the week.

yeah

i mean, i agree that that 2004 was worse, or at least seemed worse from where i stand. esp post-election. not sure abt the head to head comparisons, tbh.

nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn[ ==============================yp76

^ cat's thoughts

Bush being reelected was the worst. Everything went wrong in his first term and we reelected the fucker cuz he threw a baseball and shouted into a megaphone, yeehaw.

i'm not just speaking of presidential politics.

I will take Obama over Kerry and Romney over Bush Jr

When we won't take any of them, we might get somewhere.

my question was whether there has been a worse _moment_ in the past 30 years (since the early 80s).

Here are a couple highlights for Americans:

2000: constitutional coup
2000: dot-com bubble bursts resulting in a decade of stagnant wages
2001: terrorists fly planes into the world trade center
2001-?: GWOT
2001-?: Afghanistan (America's longest war) badly mismanaged
2002-2003: build-up to the invasion of Iraq
2003-?: invasion of Iraq - Iraq grossly mismanaged
2005: Hurricane Katrina
2007: housing bubble butrsts and the world economy nearly collapses
2009: nemployment rate briefly hits 10%

Things aren't looking great right now, but I can remember a few other low points.

And I should include:

2001-?: The rapid evolution of the unilateral, emperial presidency

Things look much better when you don't watch cable news or the Sunday talk shows, guys.

imperial

plus, always assume things get worse

because they do.

Things look much better when you don't watch cable news or the Sunday talk shows, guys.

― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, June 8, 2012 9:35 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i don't watch TV.

plus, always assume things get worse

― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, June 8, 2012 9:37 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

some things do, some things don't. we can't count on anything.

guys, the only thing we have to fear, is fear itself

well that and things always getting worse.

Can't believe I forgot

2010-?: Deepwater Horizon Oil Spill & ongoing environmental disaster

those are mostly familiar stuff getting incrementally worse. Prez facilitating star-chamber assassinations transparently is next-level shit.

(w/ Page One sympathy from the New York Times)

What worries most is the increasing privatization of public services, a trend that both parties encourage. I just ended a long teleconference in which what I consider an essential university service will be turned over to a "partnership" with a corporate entity. The assumption, based on four years of shall we say discouraging news from Tallahassee, is that we can no longer count on state money to pay for basic services. At one point I said to my boss, "Great! It means that in fifteen years the Florida Chamber of Commerce will 'partner' with the department of mathematics and thus eliminate the need for the state to give'em money for adjunct salaries and dry erase markers?"

You need to go become one of those private sector job-creators and quit complaining

What worries most is the increasing privatization of public services, a trend that both parties encourage.

This is basically a baseline assumption these days. Very destructive and hard to turn around.

You need to go become one of those private sector job-creators and quit complaining

I need to buy ILE, fire the lot of you, and replace you with right-to-work drones.

tbf, our pension plans are seriously underfunded

2000: constitutional coup
2000: dot-com bubble bursts resulting in a decade of stagnant wages
2001: terrorists fly planes into the world trade center
2001-?: GWOT
2001-?: Afghanistan (America's longest war) badly mismanaged
2002-2003: build-up to the invasion of Iraq
2003-?: invasion of Iraq - Iraq grossly mismanaged
2005: Hurricane Katrina
2007: housing bubble butrsts and the world economy nearly collapses
2009: nemployment rate briefly hits 10%
2011: Dave Cool stops posting to ilx

I don't think we can really blame all this on the commander in chief

airplanes are falling out of the sky, a baby is born and another one dies.

There will always be wars, disasters and things that come about with little or no warning, or method of aversion. I think what makes 2012 feel worse than, say, 2004, is that all this shit going on while the world teeters precariously on the brink of total economic collapse, which we all see happening (like climate change) and yet which the government (and, hell, most voters) seem to think can just be debated and argued into safe submission.

The world has been ending since 2800 BC.

I just wonder what I would have thought in the 70s, watching gas shortages, inflation, 18% interest rates, major American cities going bankrupt, rivers on fire, etc. and whether there was any hope of improvement.

as George Carlin said, "the world" vs "humanity" xp

I'll tell you what I thought in the late '70s: "Hey, we got rid of Nixon, and the government gave me a big grant for college."

I just wonder what I would have thought in the 70s, watching gas shortages, inflation, 18% interest rates, major American cities going bankrupt, rivers on fire, etc. and whether there was any hope of improvement.

http://www.bilerico.com/2011/02/Ronald_Wilson_Reagan_Cowboy_Poet.gif