the most important election of your lifetime: 2012 american general election thread

I don't believe "it'll get better once it gets a lot worse."

I believe "if by some miracle it ever gets better, it'll get a lot worse first."

I'd ask you to back up those assertions Morbs but who am I kidding

See, at least DJP's got his chainsaw

the deportation figures are at least easy enough to google

union-busting... not so much

I believe "if by some miracle it ever gets better, it'll get a lot worse first." in fantasyland

CHORUS: nottttt as muchhhhhhhhh as Rrrrrromney willllllll

always love a good chorus

it's worth noting that wills is no obama apologist -- here's what he wrote in december 2009, when o sent more troops into afghanistan:

I cannot vote for any Republican. But Obama will not get another penny from me, or another word of praise, after this betrayal. And in all this I know that my disappointment does not matter. What really matters are the lives of the young men and women he is sending off to senseless deaths.

he? not we?

AP & DJP, do you know anybody who works in labor organizing? I've gotten earfuls.

http://blackagendareport.com/?q=content/obama-acts-reagan-1981-union-buster

http://www.inthesetimes.com/article/12322/whats_the_matter_with_kansas_city/

BHO, 2007:

“And understand this: If American workers are being denied their right to organize and collectively bargain when I’m in the White House, I’ll put on a put on a comfortable pair of shoes myself. I’ll walk on that picket line with you as president of the United States.”

My labor friend, 2012: "Still waitin' on that one!"

dunno why you'd say 'we' -- reviving that war was clearly obama's pet foreign policy project, and it's pretty consistently unpopular.

President Obama’s endorsement of the firing of the entire faculty and staff of a Rhode Island public school is reminiscent of Ronald Reagan’s crushing of the air traffic controllers union, nearly three decades ago.

uh these are not even remotely comparable

i believe that sometimes it can get so bad that it has to get better just bc it can't stay the worst forever or everyone dies and life is extinguished. i do believe it can get a whole lot worse tho, and worse enough that any better that comes later does not redeem how bad it got.

yeah I think we'd lose a generation to some hellish poverty before we'd see any kind of huge left-wing surge. even then you're banking on getting rid of that american trend of family-based individualistic social darwinism thing.

hi guys! Did we solve anything?

To understand where Unger is coming from, it helps to know that his whole thing is exploring the possibility of fundamental systemic change without violent revolution. This statement at this time from him strikes me as completely disheartening and profoundly fatalist.

I don't understand this tendency on the far left to argue that Obama is not just a disappointment, not just as bad as a Republican, but WORSE than any Republican ever on every front, and to think the absolute worst of him in every case, hence wild overstatements like the comparison to Reagan's battle with the air traffic controllers. What's the psychology there?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-U_NeeYj8UVE/T5VDTwrnlHI/AAAAAAAABLk/8zUFlTDlyfI/s1600/can-of-worms.jpg

It's a good thing to expect the worst from politicians. That's the whole point of using money and grass roots efforts to push and push them.

It's a better thing to expect nothing from politicians.

it's best to expect them to shoot you in the face

esp if you're a good friend

And then declare executive privilege.

whoops, that slipped.

It's a better thing to expect nothing from politicians.

― dandydonweiner, Wednesday, June 20, 2012 10:02 PM (1 hour ago)

too bad we live in a democracy where politicians are supposed to earn their fuckin' salaries and do something

too bad we live in a democracy where politicians get a lot of money from special interests as well having to listen to the moron masses who unfortunately agree with virtually nothing I believe.

kinda think that this whole 'moron masses,' 'sheeple,' 'lol ppl are so gullible' talk ppl like to indulge in is inherently reactionary and anti-democratic.

Welcome to democracy

so many great alternatives to choose from

really though we had the graphs from the polling about where this country is in regards to the 'far left' and the 'far right' and the middle etc etc a few days ago. a lot of people in this thread - including me - want a lot of things done that most Americans, based on polling data at least, don't want done. that's democracy though.

and yes, when so many people are in favour of policies that benefit a tiny plutocracy because they're convinced it's against their interest for affordable healthcare or (DARE I SAY IT) a single payer system then I'm gonna go ahead and call a lot of the masses pretty fucking gullible.

i should probably refine the term to 'ignorant', especially going by that link from TNR about the Tennessee and the ACA, but I don't think those people will take kindly to either.

luckily the gullible rural masses to which you condescend will die soon

after all don't think the GOP doesn't condescend to them either -- they're just better at reaching them and getting them to vote against their interets. One of the reasons for liberalism's failure is their reluctance to talk to "the masses" in simple language.

At least a third of my students lack even the imagination to write a simple declarative statement. What fucking good does it do to sneer at them? I gotta deal with it. I have a job to do.

I don't! #fuckyeahtheinternet

saving Alfred's last post, will print and hand to anyone who asks why I didn't go into ed.

after all don't think the GOP doesn't condescend to them either -- they're just better at reaching them and getting them to vote against their interets. One of the reasons for liberalism's failure is their reluctance to talk to "the masses" in simple language.

― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, June 21, 2012 12:21 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Fascists always have the simpler arguments.

fascism: it's just easier

like "I'm signing the NDAA but I think the indefinite detention thing is rrrrreally unfortunate"?

xp

Obama's enacted more fascism that Rand Paul or Romney. Deal.

thaN

Fascists always have the simpler arguments.

libs have a lot to learn then

Obama's enacted more fascism that Rand Paul or Romney. Deal.

― Pangborn to be Wilde (Dr Morbius), Thursday, June 21, 2012 1:43 AM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Sure he has, but try to follow along here.

libs have a lot to learn then

― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, June 21, 2012 1:45 AM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Arguments driven by xenophobia, jingoism and selfishness will always be simpler and more visceral than arguments for generosity and compassion.

Reagan, Clinton, and FDR, those ruthless exploiters of jingoism, selfishness, and xenophobia.

uh...? Reagan...

after all don't think the GOP doesn't condescend to them either -- they're just better at reaching them and getting them to vote against their interets. One of the reasons for liberalism's failure is their reluctance to talk to "the masses" in simple language.

― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, June 20, 2012 7:21 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this pundit received wisdom is total nonsense. 'if only obama had a different speechwriter' - get outta here. on the whole we need people to be better informed about the nuances of policy if we want them to understand how, idk, a low capital gains tax or the individual mandate affects them, 'simple language' doesn't do that. it doesn't in itself win elections either.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2012/05/21/153024432/sophomoric-members-of-congress-talk-like-10th-graders-analysis-shows

democrats already use 'simple language' and many talk about ~the right issues~ using 'simple language'. it just doesn't really matter.

after all don't think the GOP doesn't condescend to them either -- they're just better at reaching them and getting them to vote against their interets.

No, they get them to prioritize one set of interests over another that you think they would be better off prioritizing.

voila

Arguments driven by xenophobia, jingoism and selfishness will always be simpler and more visceral than arguments for generosity and compassion

I lol'd because if you consider the Democrats the party of generosity and compassion then there's some people whose names I don't know being held at sites whose locations & names are secret who I'd like you to meet, only they're busy being tortured right now

Obama's enacted more fascism that Rand Paul or Romney. Deal.

hahaha the Mind of Morbz