The Darkness

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"We are the Four Horsemen of the Rock Apocalypse!"

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 7 August 2003 09:25 (twenty years ago) link

But you see Ricky, I could forgive them everything (or at least write them off as just a tired old joke) if there was even the slightest hint that they had their tongues in their cheeks; but from what I've seen and read they're taking their whole ludicrous shtick preposterously seriously!

Yes, completely otm Stewart. Their first single, and that cover they did of Street Spirit, both made me giggle when I first heard them, but that was under the assumption that they were a novelty joke band I'd never have to hear again. Now I find that a) they take themselves seriously and b) other people take themselves seriously, and I'd far rather just not have the joke in the first place because it wasn't really that funny anyway.

The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 7 August 2003 09:30 (twenty years ago) link

Jokes are only funny if they're serious.

Tom (Groke), Thursday, 7 August 2003 09:36 (twenty years ago) link

No, jokes are only funny if they're vaguely original.

Contrary to what The Lex says, I think this joke was funny in the first place (Spinal Tap); it was even a good enough joke to be funny in the second place (Bad News).

Of course you could argue that the fact that the band and most of the people who are buying their records don't seem to realise it's a joke is a novel twist - but actually that's the oldest and most tired joke of all.

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 7 August 2003 09:40 (twenty years ago) link

The difference is that Spinal Tap were comedians who thought their music is rubbish. The Darkness are musicians who think their music is great but also a bit ridiculous in places. It's the difference between something you'd want to watch again and again and something you'd want to listen to again and again.

Tom (Groke), Thursday, 7 August 2003 09:43 (twenty years ago) link

Yes, "Old trad punker" in "seen-it-all-before" Bullshit-Detector shockah!

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 7 August 2003 09:43 (twenty years ago) link

I mean if you find novelty music played dead straight so awful why aren't you starting threads slating the White Stripes?

Tom (Groke), Thursday, 7 August 2003 09:44 (twenty years ago) link

But Tom, if we accept that Spinal Tap's music is rubbish and the only reason to keep going back to them is to watch them because they're funny; what would induce anyone to want to keep listening to similar music without those accompanying visuals?

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 7 August 2003 09:46 (twenty years ago) link

I didn't start this thread Tom.

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 7 August 2003 09:48 (twenty years ago) link

Spinal Tap's music is OK - it was the attitude of the people making it I'm talking about. But the reason it was only OK was that they obviously didn't think it could be good (except on a comic level).

From first principles then - what is bad about the kind of music The Darkness play?

Tom (Groke), Thursday, 7 August 2003 09:50 (twenty years ago) link

Based on what I'd read, I too expected the Darkness to be a comedy rock band like Gay Dad or the Manic Street Preachers. Turns out that their lp is probably my favourite of the year - it makes me think of a rock 'Lexicon of Love', it's knowing about the clichés of genre but nevertheless it's in love with the hysterical melodrama of it all.

If 'I believe in a thing called love' doesn't go to #1 when it's re-released in a couple of weeks I will sulk.

Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Thursday, 7 August 2003 09:58 (twenty years ago) link

First Tom, now JtN!

David. (Cozen), Thursday, 7 August 2003 10:01 (twenty years ago) link

I liked it alot!

dave q, Thursday, 7 August 2003 10:02 (twenty years ago) link

Tom, I don't think there's anything intrinsically dreadful about the kind of music per se within it's historical context; it's just that it's very old and very tired by now and if someone genuinely wants to revive it they really need to try to add something a little bit new to the mix rather than just exaggerating it like a caricature (unless they're deliberately exploiting those caricature qualities for comedic effect).

Do you seriously think The Darkness stand / would have stood up to comparison with the original bands whose style they're aping or; given a historically level playing field; would they (as I believe) have ended up at best as 4th Division no-hopers playing for beer money on the local pub circuit?

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 7 August 2003 10:02 (twenty years ago) link

True, they are not the Scorpions yet. What they need is a) minor-key vocal harmonies b) a gtr god. Since Uli Roth and Michael Schenker are probably unavailable, maybe I should join them.

dave q, Thursday, 7 August 2003 10:06 (twenty years ago) link

Stewart I have no idea, because I didn't listen to the original bands. From what I do know then yes, I think they would have done alright, maybe there'd have been suspicion because they don't take the genre completely seriously (JtN's point is excellent I think), maybe they'd have been a bit too pop and crowd-pleasing. (I think the pop aspects (both 'hookiness' and 'attention to the total package') is a new thing they bring to their genre, btw.)

Tom (Groke), Thursday, 7 August 2003 10:06 (twenty years ago) link

"comedy rock band like Gay Dad or the Manic Street Preachers"

hee hee!

person#0 (person#0), Thursday, 7 August 2003 10:10 (twenty years ago) link

Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it.

Unfortunately they keep dragging the rest of us with them!

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 7 August 2003 10:11 (twenty years ago) link

In my experience the 'original bands' for a sound are sometimes better, sometimes worse than the originals.

Those who know too much history are also doomed to repeat it at the rest of us.

Tom (Groke), Thursday, 7 August 2003 10:15 (twenty years ago) link

sometimes worse than the 'copyists' I was going to say.

Tom (Groke), Thursday, 7 August 2003 10:18 (twenty years ago) link

Going back to equations, if I extrapolate Dave Q's theorem I obtain:

Scorpions - minor-key vocal harmonies - a gtr god = Darkness.

Talk about damning with faint praise!

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 7 August 2003 10:18 (twenty years ago) link

"Those who know too much history are also doomed to repeat it at the rest of us."

Ignorance is bliss.

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 7 August 2003 10:19 (twenty years ago) link

What albums should a naive Darkness fan be listening to then, Grandad?

Tom (Groke), Thursday, 7 August 2003 10:21 (twenty years ago) link

I think they're *very* New Wave OF British Heavy Metal circa early 80's (Tygers of Pan Tang et al). I kinda like them. The single's ace. I'm not in the least bit interested in whether they're *serious* or not.

JtN on the money.

Dr. C (Dr. C), Thursday, 7 August 2003 10:25 (twenty years ago) link

I think it's your Great Grandad you really need to ask about that!

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 7 August 2003 10:25 (twenty years ago) link

(Scorpions - gtr god) = Abba "Eagle"

dave q, Thursday, 7 August 2003 10:26 (twenty years ago) link

In my experience the 'original bands' for a sound are sometimes better, sometimes worse than the originals.
Those who know too much history are also doomed to repeat it at the rest of us.

I never heard the original bands much either, and am certainly not familiar with them, but the whole poodle-haired cock-rock thing is tired anyway. I always took the 'joke' to be that The Darkness were so bad and so overblown with it that it was mildly funny, and that it was such a caricature that it had to be tongue-in-cheek. Even if it was tongue-in-cheek it would have palled after two songs anyway, because the thing with so-bad-it's-good is that it swiftly just becomes bad.

The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 7 August 2003 11:08 (twenty years ago) link

Hair-metal bands as a rule did NOT have 'castrato' singers tho. Bret Michaels and Stephen Pearcy sounded a bit Cooper-like, Vince Neil and Jani Lane sounded like Brian Connolly.

dave q, Thursday, 7 August 2003 11:23 (twenty years ago) link

Once the joke wears thin they will go away.

doom-e cool kid of death, Thursday, 7 August 2003 11:24 (twenty years ago) link

It doesn't always work like that though. Wishful thinking.

David. (Cozen), Thursday, 7 August 2003 11:26 (twenty years ago) link

It will with the Darkness. The songs are not there. Once the 'shock' of seeing them fades, they will as well, and the English Pop Culture machine will turn, and they will fall out of favour.

doom-e cool kid of death, Thursday, 7 August 2003 11:29 (twenty years ago) link

Once the joke wears thin they will go away.

The joke has long worn thin. They are still here. Bah.

The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 7 August 2003 11:31 (twenty years ago) link

wait until all the bored critics' hard-ons fade for the chance to write about something 'different'. seriously, it's a shtick. this always fades in rock'n'roll. it burns bright and then it's gone. knebworth/mercury/number two ... no substance and all ugly style. it will be forgotten about next year. who remembers teh bluetones?

doom-e cool kid of death, Thursday, 7 August 2003 11:33 (twenty years ago) link

basically, they are going through the cycle of hype too quickly. bands that do, always fade.

doom-e cool kid of death, Thursday, 7 August 2003 11:36 (twenty years ago) link

nothing ever 'fades' in the eternal present

dave q, Thursday, 7 August 2003 11:38 (twenty years ago) link

i'm not talking 'eternal present' - do the equation:

strokes, garage rock (the hives), ac/dc inspired rock (datsuns etc) and then the darkness (comedy robbie williams metal, full on eighties rock), where does it go from there? the pop cycle. and with the present hype, after awhile, the darkness will die.

doom-e cool kid of death, Thursday, 7 August 2003 11:42 (twenty years ago) link

I think what we need to be most fearful of Doom-e is that these bored rock critics don't go out and find a bunch of other vaguely similar bands and create a whole New New Wave Of Sad Second Rate Unoriginal Heavy Metal Copyists movement that they can build up and create a little feeding frenzy over for 6 months prior to spending the following 6 months destroying them again.

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 7 August 2003 11:43 (twenty years ago) link

Can't I just listen to Queen instead? In fact I think I will.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 7 August 2003 12:29 (twenty years ago) link

Turns out that their lp is probably my favourite of the year - it makes me think of a rock 'Lexicon of Love', it's knowing about the clichés of genre but nevertheless it's in love with the hysterical melodrama of it all.

This might be the most upsetting thing JtN has ever written *if* what I heard in Probe in Liverpool the other week was The Darkness.

I heard who someone who sounded like a not-quite-into-it Bruce Dickinson bawl their way through a set of pancake-thin pub-band demos. It was ugly and forgettable like a subsiding Maryport semi. If this isn't The Darkness, I apologise.

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 7 August 2003 12:58 (twenty years ago) link

It was the Darkness.

doom-e cool kid of death, Thursday, 7 August 2003 13:03 (twenty years ago) link

it's not very funny, I don't think they're crap, they were mildly amusing at glasto but can't imagine really loving them either way. novelty schmovelty, i laughed more at tiga's hot in herre, *hides*.

Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 7 August 2003 13:10 (twenty years ago) link

''Old trad punker doesn't like the 'Ness - BIG THUMBS UP!''

just bcz a punk rock fan doesn't like 'em does not mean they are classic or dud. must try harder.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 7 August 2003 13:19 (twenty years ago) link

''Old trad punker doesn't like the 'Ness - BIG THUMBS UP!''

And isnt Tom, like thirty two or something? Not really down with the kids unless you are a paed.

doom-e cool kid of death, Thursday, 7 August 2003 13:23 (twenty years ago) link

If "the kids" like The Darkness then it's a bonus. But all the people I know who like them are in the glorious 25-34 demographic.

Tom (Groke), Thursday, 7 August 2003 13:30 (twenty years ago) link

Apart from Sarah and Lixi of course.

Give me a D! Give me an ARKNESS! (RickyT), Thursday, 7 August 2003 13:32 (twenty years ago) link

Yes very true - sorry Sarah and Lixi - it's your maturity that does it.

Tom (Groke), Thursday, 7 August 2003 13:33 (twenty years ago) link

not really down with the kids unless you are a paed


this line is funny on many levels. not perhaps the ones it was intended to be funny on.

ps: Tom, if that's the case then I am happy to have 5 years of listening to great music before it all goes pear.

Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 7 August 2003 13:34 (twenty years ago) link

at which point I can write "dance is dead" articles.

Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 7 August 2003 13:34 (twenty years ago) link

I think it's funny that Doomy doesn't like the Darkness because they are a nostalgic invention of the London media pack. And we thought Alan McGhee had a monopoly on that kind of thing!

(Actually one of the reasons I like the 'Ness is that they are the brilliant return of everything that was left out of the Creation "international guardians of rock and roll" canon.)

Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Thursday, 7 August 2003 13:43 (twenty years ago) link

Now I remember why I used to hang around! hooray!

Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Thursday, 7 August 2003 13:47 (twenty years ago) link

I kinda thought the 2nd album was pretty dope. Try "Is It Just Me," "Dinner Lady Arms," "Girlfriend," "English Country Garden" and the title track. Honestly I think the 1st album is equally spotty, but the highlights are kinda incredible.

billstevejim, Thursday, 13 November 2014 16:35 (nine years ago) link

So many great memories just thinking about that first Darkness record.

joni mitchell jarre (dog latin), Thursday, 13 November 2014 16:37 (nine years ago) link

They were very entertaining live around the time of that first album!

Welcome To (Turrican), Thursday, 13 November 2014 16:43 (nine years ago) link

One Way Ticket to Hell...And Back is a great album, but its nowhere near as immediate as the first Darkness album. It didn't help that the first single was garbage too.

DavidLeeRoth, Thursday, 13 November 2014 17:57 (nine years ago) link

Yeah, I listened to Hot Cakes and really liked it.

EveningStar (Sund4r), Sunday, 16 November 2014 21:01 (nine years ago) link

It didn't help that the first single was garbage too.

I wouldn't call it garbage, but it was a bad choice for a lead single.

billstevejim, Sunday, 16 November 2014 21:32 (nine years ago) link

four months pass...

i kind of love how their new single rips off 'sex type thing'

maura, Thursday, 2 April 2015 15:30 (nine years ago) link

at least in terms of riff

maura, Thursday, 2 April 2015 15:30 (nine years ago) link

eleven months pass...

OH THE STATE OF ELATION THAT THIS UNISON OF HEARTS HAS ACHIVEVED

calstars, Friday, 25 March 2016 17:21 (eight years ago) link

two months pass...
one year passes...

“Growing on Me” is still in my head 15 years later or whatever
The best song about crabs ever written

calstars, Friday, 1 December 2017 15:26 (six years ago) link

one year passes...

"Christmas Time" is one of the all-time great Christmas records, snow fucks given

I Accept the Word of Santa (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 15 December 2018 12:55 (five years ago) link

it works

gabbnebulous (darraghmac), Saturday, 15 December 2018 13:08 (five years ago) link

the lost b-side “out of my hands” is ace

calstars, Saturday, 15 December 2018 17:41 (five years ago) link

I think 'Christmas Time' is the best Darkness song full stop!

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Saturday, 15 December 2018 22:34 (five years ago) link


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