Wolverine: Why is he so popular?

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The claws, and rough demeanor for at least 25 years. Hell, when did he get big? 1980? the New Xmen was like 1976, wasn't it?

kingfish superman ice cream (kingfish 2.0), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 20:53 (eighteen years ago) link

"Essential Wolverine Vol. 1" might be the dullest collection of comics I have ever paid money for. I wouldn't have thought Claremont could manage to make a series starring Wolverine so boring, but oh he does, mainly by miring the character down in what seems like decades of unfathomable X-continuity, and a gang war plot which is even more tedious than "War Games".

Philip Alderman (Phil A), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 22:32 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't think Wolverine really caught on til the Byrne run. The key issue is probably the one with him going buck wild on the Hellfire Club guards in the Dark Phoenix storyline. The Claremont/Miller miniseries cemented it.

Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 00:20 (eighteen years ago) link

Yeah but there might be a point in what Philip's saying. Wolverine's a great character when he has someone to interact with. He's always been fascinating in X-Men (I ended up loving other characters like Kitty Pryde more than Logan, but he was the main reason I started reading X-Men) and he's also pretty good in team ups, but his regular series has always seemed pretty much of a drab. Except for the original Claremont/Miller series, which was loads of fun, but I'm not too sure it ended up being healthy for the character; from then on his solo outings became really dull versions of Daredevil.

iodine (iodine), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 01:52 (eighteen years ago) link

Blame Byrne. Cockrum never had much interest in Wolverine (he favored Nightcrawler). Byrne loooved Wolverine, and indulged him with multiple Canada arcs.

The key issue is probably the one with him going buck wild on the Hellfire Club guards in the Dark Phoenix storyline. The Claremont/Miller miniseries cemented it.

This is 100% correct. (As is Vic's addendum).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1d/Uncanny133.jpg

The last panel of Uncanny 132 had (very young) me chasing my tail for a month. And Byrnemont, with their long-term lease on the book, had been building to this for YEARS. Every single time Rule-Following Older Brother Scott held him back, dressed him down for engaging claws before brain, it was a chip in the bank.* And now, at last, there'd be no one to hold him back, and a bunch of baddies who truly Had It Coming.

This pretty much sealed the deal. And yeah, it's a classic, but I mean just the cover alone:
http://www.dynamicforces.com/images/xmen-daysoffuturepast-tpb.jpg


*Most of the time (e.g. vs. Magneto, vs Sauron), poor straight-man Scott really was OTM. The resolution of the Alpha Flight arc gave Logan a chance to show he'd absorbed the message.

rogermexico (rogermexico), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 03:46 (eighteen years ago) link

In his introduction to the tpb of the Miller mini, Claremont says he thinks the key to the character is that he's a "failed samurai". Which is obviously crap. Its the claws. And the mysterious past. And the propensity for psychotic ultraviolence. He appeals to 14 year-old boys, basically. He was my favourite X-Man when I was a 14 year old boy.

David N (David N.), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 23:14 (eighteen years ago) link

obviously crap

Wrong.

The appeal is that he's cool and a rebel, but Claremont is right to point out the significance and value of the noble-savage character arc and the long, shadowy (hence endlessly extensible/retcon-friendly) past.

Cool and a rebel doesn't buy 25 years of HOT. Ask Guy Gardner.

rogermexico (rogermexico), Wednesday, 12 October 2005 23:31 (eighteen years ago) link

Look at the loving attention paid to all those intricate swirls of arm hair in that first cover!

Leeeeeeeeee (Leee), Thursday, 13 October 2005 00:23 (eighteen years ago) link

LOW BLOW, ROGER.

Huk-L (Huk-L), Thursday, 13 October 2005 00:37 (eighteen years ago) link

Hard to be cool when you look like a fourth Stooge. Guy Gardner's bowl haircut

scamperingalpaca (Chris Hill), Thursday, 13 October 2005 01:43 (eighteen years ago) link

whoops - there were "

scamperingalpaca (Chris Hill), Thursday, 13 October 2005 01:48 (eighteen years ago) link

Feeling feeble here. Tried included symbols to show Wolvie's haircut as far superior to Guy's.

scamperingalpaca (Chris Hill), Thursday, 13 October 2005 01:49 (eighteen years ago) link

I never thought I'd see the day when somebody said Guy Gardner was "cool"!!!

Guy just wouldn't be the same without the "ernie" hairdo!

iodine (iodine), Thursday, 13 October 2005 01:55 (eighteen years ago) link

Miguel got that right. GG wouldn't be the same without the "ernie" hairdo.
Besides, I think what caused GG to stop being cool was the whole retconning origin / vuldarian warrior thing, which made a perfectly good character convoluted and difficult to comprehend.

Wolverine, on the other hand, and despite all the false memories / origin / blah blah blah is a character that's been kept relatively simple and his core characteristics have been the same for years, that contributes to his enduring appeal.

Amadeo (Amadeo G.), Thursday, 13 October 2005 03:33 (eighteen years ago) link

Isn't there some sort of weird macho appeal going on with his "healing factor" also (and was this and its terminology stolen from some older SF material? I know Claremont used to do that occasionally)? You can beat the crap out of him but he *will* always get up again and get you back-- scales better into the average teenage boy's psychology than being invulnerable to bullets (more a fantasy for teenage nerds who feel vulnerable to everything)?

Chris F. (servoret), Thursday, 13 October 2005 05:20 (eighteen years ago) link

Yeah, he def. has that ultimate masochist thing going. Couple that with the fact that he's the baddest-ass around then add that he's short and has funny hair and you've got a major teen-goober identification figure. (I'm throwing that psychobabble term around way too much lately. Better find some other gobblegook to latch onto.)

Austin Still (Austin, Still), Thursday, 13 October 2005 05:30 (eighteen years ago) link

I like how Morrison took Wolverine's healing power to its logical extreme of making him an immortal who's more powerful than the Sun.

Old School (sexyDancer), Thursday, 13 October 2005 14:06 (eighteen years ago) link

But there are some obvious ways of getting around it - throw him into space, bury him in concrete...

Ray (Ray), Thursday, 13 October 2005 14:41 (eighteen years ago) link

Was it Morrison who had him toss of a reference to being buried in an avalanche for months and living off strips of his own regenerating flesh?

Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 13 October 2005 15:16 (eighteen years ago) link

Something that kind of highlights the absurdity of a healing factor. Have Wolverine and The Beyonder ever been seen in the same room?

Ray (Ray), Thursday, 13 October 2005 15:22 (eighteen years ago) link

Was it Morrison who had him toss of a reference to being buried in an avalanche for months and living off strips of his own regenerating flesh?
-- Jordan (jordan...), October 13th, 2005. (later)

That can't be right. Surely that breaks the second law of thermodynamics? Yeah, like that matters.

And in the real world Logan & Jean Grey would have been shagging like a pair of nymphomaniacal rabbits with unlimited access to supplies of V1aGra.

Which probably makes him fairly popular with a certain type of fanboy...

Stone Monkey (Stone Monkey), Thursday, 13 October 2005 15:44 (eighteen years ago) link

Wolverine stole his hairdo from Simon Stagg.

Huk-L (Huk-L), Thursday, 13 October 2005 18:06 (eighteen years ago) link

Though if Wolverine has an infinite healing factor, why does he even need to eat his own flesh to survive? If he doesn't eat, his muscles atrophy and blood thins and whatever the hell else not eating does to your body, but then the healing factor kicks in and everything goes back to normal. He shouldn't need to eat, drink or breathe, because he can't do any permananent damage to his body.

Ray (Ray), Friday, 14 October 2005 07:43 (eighteen years ago) link

Er, that's the second law of thermodynamics again. Even if he has healing powers, he should need some external energy source to power those powers.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Friday, 14 October 2005 09:23 (eighteen years ago) link

(That's assuming his healing power is biological in nature rather than created by some mystical energy field or something.)

Tuomas (Tuomas), Friday, 14 October 2005 09:25 (eighteen years ago) link

Sure, he should have to get the energy from somewhere, but this is obviously an essentially magic power (like most mutant powers) where energy is coming from nowhere. My point is that, even ignoring the energy issues, there is no reason why Wolverine should eat himself to avoid starvation, and then recover the bits he's bitten off, rather than just recover the damage from starvation directly. It doesn't make any sense, even taking into account the fact that his power doesn't make sense.

Ray (Ray), Friday, 14 October 2005 09:51 (eighteen years ago) link

I'm guessing that Wolverine, along with all the other mutants, is powered by zero point energy.
It would explain a few things.

Personally I've always thought that Forge's powers were the coolest. But that's probably because I'm a bit weird.

Stone Monkey (Stone Monkey), Friday, 14 October 2005 10:43 (eighteen years ago) link

He was able to order drinks when he was 17? A power that would have some appeal to teenagers...

Ray (Ray), Friday, 14 October 2005 10:50 (eighteen years ago) link

TS: Forge vs Cypher

The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Friday, 14 October 2005 12:57 (eighteen years ago) link

But, probably, eating has become a pyschological necessity for Wolverang, so even though he doesn't need to do it for PHYSIOLOGICAL reasons, his mind will fret itself silly if he don't get some grub-a-dub-dub in his adamantium belly. Just like Silver Age Superman didn't NEED to sleep, but often did, because, y'know, he was already in his pyjamas.

Huk-L (Huk-L), Friday, 14 October 2005 13:49 (eighteen years ago) link

He was able to order drinks when he was 17? A power that would have some appeal to teenagers...

Oh come on, every other teenage girl has that power... It's called make-up and cleavage.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Friday, 14 October 2005 13:50 (eighteen years ago) link

TS: Forge vs Cypher

Let's see -

Forge - had a cool robot hand, could build a tank out of crisp packets like the A Team, boned Storm

Cypher - could speak Estruscan and boned Warlock

I would say Forge, though it was quite interesting to have Cypher as a superhero with a superpower that is absolutely no good in a Fite

Mark C (Markco), Friday, 14 October 2005 14:31 (eighteen years ago) link

I like Cypher a lot more than Forge - he's just a more appealing character for one, and his power makes more sense than Forge's, which I think is too broad and ill-defined, not to mention totally wasted on building guns and holographic apartments.

Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Friday, 14 October 2005 15:25 (eighteen years ago) link

BKV used Forge to great effect in Mystique!

Leeeeeeeeee (Leee), Friday, 14 October 2005 17:48 (eighteen years ago) link

Isn't the easiest explanation for the whole "eating yourself" nonsense that Wolverine likes to make up crazy stories?

The Yellow Kid, Friday, 14 October 2005 17:52 (eighteen years ago) link

Isn't the easiest explanation for the story that the writer flunked all his science classes?

Chris F. (servoret), Saturday, 15 October 2005 18:03 (eighteen years ago) link

Are we seriously talking about the second law of thermodynamics as it pertains to a universe where there's a dude who generated copies of himself every time someone punches him too hard?

The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Sunday, 16 October 2005 17:24 (eighteen years ago) link

Why not?

Einstein: "Then again, e=mc^2 may only be a local phenomenon."

William Paper Scissors (Rock Hardy), Sunday, 16 October 2005 17:30 (eighteen years ago) link

The thing is, you just accept the powers as they are until the writer tries to explain them. Wolverine can regenerate any damage - okay, he just can, fine. Wolverine can regenerate damage because he's full of tiny nanomachines - hmm, okay, if you say so (but then what about X, and Y...). Wolverine can regenerate any damage so he can eat his own arm to stop from starving? That's just silly.

Ray (Ray), Monday, 17 October 2005 07:47 (eighteen years ago) link

three months pass...
From the list of Comic Urban Legends here. I didn't know this. Think of how they could have wrapped Bova into his romantic past!

COMIC URBAN LEGEND: Wolverine was initially intended to be a genetically mutated wolverine.

STATUS: True

Initially, not only was Wolverine to be a mutated Wolverine, he was also supposed to be a teenager, just like the rest of the X-Men! It wasn't until Dave Cockrum first drew Wolverine without a mask that everyone realized that Wolverine was not as young as the other X-Men. Said Wein, at the time, "You just put thirty years on that guy."

In addition, according to Len Wein, “The adamantium claws were [only] in the gloves when I first created the character. And the claws were retractable. They were telescoping, and they would fit back in the casing of the gloves.”

As for the "mutated Wolverine" part, check out X-Men #98. A technician gets a reading on Wolverine that suggests he is not a full-fledged mutant. This was because Wein's initial intentions were to make Wolverine an evolved wolverine, courtesy of the High Evolutionary.

Chris Claremont soon took over writing the book full-time, and he went his own way with the character, but imagine...what could have been?!?

(Wein quotes courtesy of The X-Men Companion, 1982)

scamperingalpaca (Chris Hill), Friday, 3 February 2006 17:23 (eighteen years ago) link

Whoops. There's a better link to the original article.

scamperingalpaca (Chris Hill), Friday, 3 February 2006 17:25 (eighteen years ago) link

That Comics Urban Legend thing is R-A-D.

Huk-L (Huk-L), Friday, 3 February 2006 17:48 (eighteen years ago) link

Agreed! Had no idea about some of the stuff - like Milgrom getting fired for the anti-Harras art addition, or the editor scorning Liefeld's art on that Hawk & Dove issue. I'd thought all the anti-Liefeld scorn was backlash driven by fanboys.

scamperingalpaca (Chris Hill), Friday, 3 February 2006 18:02 (eighteen years ago) link

Editor scorning the what now? I thought the only urban legend related to Liefeld and that H&D mini was that the job had to be saved by the inker? Or does "it had to be saved" = "scorn"?

Chris F. (servoret), Saturday, 4 February 2006 00:39 (eighteen years ago) link

Oh, never mind-- I finally got the site to load. Cute-- I never knew that it got so bad that Kesel had to complete the figure drawings for him!

Chris F. (servoret), Saturday, 4 February 2006 00:59 (eighteen years ago) link

Maybe something people like about Wolverine is, despite the anger and killing, he enjoys himself once in a while? Sure its bad news for villains when he shows up, but he usually has a pretty good time messing with other heroes. Unlike say, Punisher, Wolverine enjoys being a badass.

goodbyesoberday (goodbyesoberday), Saturday, 4 February 2006 01:46 (eighteen years ago) link

why are there no threads on the adventures of tin tin?

no bones, Saturday, 4 February 2006 02:02 (eighteen years ago) link

Are you serious? We publish fiction, not documented history!
(If you are serious, check the "Greatest Comics of All Time Poll" for how highly Tintin rates on ILC)(A: VERY HIGHLY)

Nobody ever answered my question about Logan's eyepatch. So I'm going to assume it was private dig at Cyclops.

Huk-L (Huk-L), Saturday, 4 February 2006 03:51 (eighteen years ago) link

six months pass...
Just read this in the weekly X-Axis e-mail, regarding the new "Claws" Wolverine / Black Cat limited run, and the overuse of the character in inconsequential miniseries:

Since cover date January 2000, Wolverine has
appeared in Ultimate Wolverine vs Hulk, What If: Wolverine, Wolverine:
Soultaker, Witchblade/Wolverine, Wolverine/Punisher, Wolverine/ Captain
America, Wolverine: The End, Spider-Man & Wolverine, Wolverine: Snikt!,
Wolverine/Doop, Wolverine: X-Isle, Hulk/Wolverine: Six Hours, Wolverine:
Netsuke, Wolverine/Hulk, Elektra/ Wolverine: The Redeemers, Origin, Iron
Fist/Wolverine and Before the Fantastic Four: Ben Grimm & Logan.

Yet he remains one of, if not THE, most popular Marvel characters.

lumberingwoodsman (Chris Hill), Monday, 21 August 2006 16:45 (seventeen years ago) link

SNIKT

Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Monday, 21 August 2006 17:28 (seventeen years ago) link

This movie was recently re-released in B&W for a weekend (limited-run), which is an interesting thing for a big studio to do.

face it, tiger... you just hit middle age (morrisp), Tuesday, 30 May 2017 02:05 (six years ago) link

I'd pay to see the silent film cut, like the black & chrome version of the last Mad Max. I might even pay movie ticket prices.

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 30 May 2017 03:13 (six years ago) link

The b&w Logan cut is with the digital release as a freebie.

mh, Tuesday, 30 May 2017 03:53 (six years ago) link

watched logan last night and was super-impressed by jackman, stewart and dafne keen's performances - patrick stewart in particular was fantastic in a role that could easily have been mawkish but he was great at swinging between lucid tenderness and rage and confusion

i also really, really liked the effects they put together for professor x's seizures

i think ultimately it's better than the sum of its parts mainly due to the familiarity of jackman and stewart and how good their performances are. for all the talk of it being the first 'real' wolverine movie it shared a lot of the faults of mangold's first one - shitty villains and weirdly slack pacing being the main ones. and while i understand that having wolverine face and overcome a younger, more feral version of himself was thematically appropriate it ended up being just kinda ham-handed in practice. having him face off against sabretooth instead would still fit the themes of family and redemption and might offer a bit more of an interesting villain for a final face-off

the other thing which bugged me was the utterly implausible exposition video put together by the nurse who rescued laura - if they were going to do that, couldn't they have mocked up the shots as like stolen surveillance camera footage or something instead of implying that the was walking around highly secure areas with her phone out filming like a tourist?

heck i've even been an 'oyster pirate' (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 31 May 2017 11:25 (six years ago) link

also, while i remember: i'm sure it's hard to do a road movie about a grizzled burnout shuttling a precious human cargo across a dystopian landscape without invoking children of men or the road but mangold seemed to be leaning into it rather than offering points of differentiation most of the time

heck i've even been an 'oyster pirate' (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 31 May 2017 11:34 (six years ago) link

the other thing which bugged me was the utterly implausible exposition video put together by the nurse who rescued laura - if they were going to do that, couldn't they have mocked up the shots as like stolen surveillance camera footage or something instead of implying that the was walking around highly secure areas with her phone out filming like a tourist?

Yeah, I made the same gripe up above (...I point out in a "gr8 minds think alike" way, not an "I scooped you" way)

face it, tiger... you just hit middle age (morrisp), Wednesday, 31 May 2017 16:59 (six years ago) link

two great minds united by irritation at a minor detail in an action movie

heck i've even been an 'oyster pirate' (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 31 May 2017 17:01 (six years ago) link

I think that's what brought Adorno & Horkheimer together

face it, tiger... you just hit middle age (morrisp), Wednesday, 31 May 2017 17:03 (six years ago) link

captain and tennille too iirc

heck i've even been an 'oyster pirate' (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 31 May 2017 17:07 (six years ago) link

I wonder if there will be an X-23 movie; I'd love to see Laura's story continue (although not necessarily the same story told in the comics). I read a blurb saying it may happen, but of course who knows.

I'm assuming the New Mutants movie coming next year has nothing to do with the world of "Logan" or the group of kids at the end.

face it, tiger... you just hit middle age (morrisp), Wednesday, 31 May 2017 19:04 (six years ago) link

it's going to have Storm from Days of Future Past, so barring time-jump shenanigans I assume it'll be set in the early '90s

Nhex, Wednesday, 31 May 2017 20:22 (six years ago) link

Grunge soundtrack!

face it, tiger... you just hit middle age (morrisp), Thursday, 1 June 2017 00:11 (six years ago) link

Grunge soundtrack would be perfect for that Cable movie we were brainstorming a while back, that would just go all-in on 1991-era badassery, and have only solid colors as backgrounds for 3/4 of the scenes, five variant opening credits sequences, etc.... gah, what thread was that?

﴿→ ☺ (Doctor Casino), Thursday, 1 June 2017 05:09 (six years ago) link

I reread some Cable stuff on Marvel Unlimited and it's not all bad? The badass gun dude cliche is horrible but any mid-/post-conflict era where dudes who are into guns and infiltrating our zeitgeist (and colonizing our police forces) makes a reasonable big gun man a viable alternative to "shoot everything" big gun man

plus pouches are back in

mh, Thursday, 1 June 2017 05:45 (six years ago) link

one month passes...

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