the most important election of your lifetime: 2012 american general election thread

it could happen MW but I think the GOP has at least another 20 years in it even in its current configuration

at least that'd be my guess

The Dems are not the fiscally conservative party.

we have no fiscally conservative party.

the thing re the shift in the south to the gop and the shift in the rest of the country of liberal republicans to the democratic side is it more of a natural correction of a aberration which was that the parties were not ideologically aligned cause of ancient grudges held over the civil war than it was a result of the voting rights act etc - that helped it along but it was inevitable, its not the normal situation to have liberal and conservative wings of both parties in a two party system

fiscal conservatism means you spend money on the things you think are the important common sense things

A good post about it: http://plainblogaboutpolitics.blogspot.com/2012/05/in-which-conservatives-get-their-own.html

fiscal conservatism means you spend money on the things you think are the important common sense things

― lag∞n, Friday, July 6, 2012 6:34 PM (54 seconds ago

Socialism is the language of priorities.

Karl Rove's contribution to the economy:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/07/rove-backed-super-pac-25m-ad-buy-attacks-obama/

its kinda funny these super pacs cant find anything better to do w/their cash than buy ads in the presidential race

not a v good value!

Get ready for some dumbshittery on this one:

Akron Restaurant Owner Dies Hours After Meeting Obama:

The owner of an Akron restaurant where President Barack Obama stopped for breakfast this morning died, apparently of a heart attack, shortly after meeting him.

Josephine “Ann” Harris, 70, of Copley Township, was taken by ambulance to Akron General Medical Center after complaining of fatigue and a tingling feeling. She was pronounced dead at 11:18 a.m., according to the Summit County Medical Examiner’s Office.

Harris, just a few hours before, had the honor of meeting — and hugging — Obama when he stopped at her family’s restaurant, Ann’s Place, on South Hawkins Avenue for breakfast. This was Obama’s first stop on the second day of a bus tour through Ohio and Pennsylvania.

“I’m sure this was her highlight,” said Frankie Adkins, Harris’ sister, who lives in Tulsa, Okla., and heard about her sister’s sudden death from family members. “She loved Obama.”

Obama stopped in Ann’s Place for breakfast about 8:30 a.m. Harris was ecstatic about his visit when a Beacon Journal reporter spoke to her shortly afterward.

cant believe he poisoned some lady who just wanted to hug him, what a dick

Clearly he has mastered the Touch of Death.

VA, NC & FL all went to Obama in 2008 fwiw

eating away at the edges

I have no idea where on South Hawkins Ann's Place would be

x-post
influx of new residents in those states helped Obama

xps

They got their way but they're still going to lose generationally

The Republican coalition now consists mainly of the extremely wealthy, who bankroll the party, call the shots, and reward themselves with trillion dollar tax cuts, together with important voting blocs made up of religious conservatives, small business owners, the poorly educated, the angry and the easily propagandized. It has become much less conservative and far more reactionary as the two parties have polarized.

As much as I hate to say it, this strategy has worked extremely well for them, especially given the heavy bias in the US constitution to give the controlling power to small states with low populations. Mississippi may be a shitty state to live in, but it's proved to be a great model to base political power on.

As for losing out generationally, I doubt it. The Democrats have made more gestures toward addressing the issues that concern the young, but they have hardly done enough to win undying loyalty. The Republicans will shift their message to suit the winds of change, because the party is very top-down and the keepers of the money will still call the shots. They will take the Tea Party out and shoot it in the head whenever they feel that is best for them.

two party systems tend toward balance with parties changing their views when they become unfashionable, but that doesnt mean you cant have lopsided adjustment periods

influx of new residents in those states helped Obama

lol at anybody for whom this is a meaningful fact

At any rate Aimless seems sadly otm to me here:

The Republican coalition now consists mainly of the extremely wealthy, who bankroll the party, call the shots, and reward themselves with trillion dollar tax cuts, together with important voting blocs made up of religious conservatives, small business owners, the poorly educated, the angry and the easily propagandized. It has become much less conservative and far more reactionary as the two parties have polarized.

not everybody's going to be a small business owner, but "the poorly educated, the angry and the easily propagandized" is a huge chunk of any given human population & a perhaps bigger chunk of the American population, for whatever reason. Republican rhetoric in recent years has pulled off the neat parlor trick of criticizing Democrats for being "angry" (at Bush, at the Iraq war, etc) while offering a place for people who've got a lot of free-floating displaced rage to vent. They will be able to persuade these people to vote against their interest for some time to come.

^ yeah, this. aimless and aero otm, sadly. the politics of unbridled fear, loathing and anger, as managed by very wealthy.

They're deomstrably on the wrong side of economics (eg. the Bush years and present refusal to ever envision any tax increases), race relations, foreign policy, civil rights, esp. LGBT rights, the environment and future nat'l security issues and however much the big money ppl think they can "take the Tea Party out and shoot it", the tiger they're riding's contumely will only increase as they represent a smaller and smaller percentage of the whole and they get increasingly fucked.

kinda funny these super pacs cant find anything better to do w/their cash than buy ads in the presidential race

― lag∞n, Friday, July 6, 2012 11:42 AM (51 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

not a v good value!

― lag∞n, Friday, July 6, 2012 11:42 AM (51 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I agree! After experiencing Meg Whitman's campaign for governor in CA a few years ago, I'm somewhat surprised that this is still considered good strategy or an effective use of money.

Cool way to spread the wealth, tho

I mean that is real trickle-down at work, there.

M. White, I would like to believe in your future comeuppance for republicans, but I wish I could say that the majority of the voting population understood economics enough to punish the republicans for their policy failures. I wish Obama hadn't largely thrown away the opportunity to punish the CEOs and CFOs of fraudulent mortgage lenders and insurance companies at the start of his first term.

I wish the people who vote in favor of establishing stronger civil rights for minorities didn't have so many goddamn closet racists to offset them.

I wish more than a tiny fraction of Americans cared about foreign relations and the environment.

I wish the issue of national security wasn't mostly the province of jingos and super-patriots.

driving up ad prices between now and november doesn't strike me as a wealth-spreading activity. wealth-shifting maybe.

the shrinking GOP voter pool means that the citizens who vote for the GOP will eventually coagulate into a new, more formidable and loathsome political party. That's why human nature is awesome.

They're deomstrably on the wrong side of economics (eg. the Bush years and present refusal to ever envision any tax increases), race relations, foreign policy, civil rights, esp. LGBT rights, the environment and future nat'l security issues and however much the big money ppl think they can "take the Tea Party out and shoot it", the tiger they're riding's contumely will only increase as they represent a smaller and smaller percentage of the whole and they get increasingly fucked.

― Love Max Ophüls of us all (Michael White), Friday, July 6, 2012 12:38 PM (19 minutes ago)

this sounds true, but isn't, i don't think. the republican party represents not reactionary anger about this or that, but reactionary anger in general. therefore, they can keep shifting the goalposts. this is america, after all: there's always gonna be a big bloc of scared, angry reactionaries out there.

^ at least 60 years of republican politics in america seem to bear this out

Americans aren't more stupid than other peoples. Plenty of stupid French people. Look at Le Pen voters!

sure. i do think that we're a notably fearful, angry and puritan nation, though.

not like it's a contest

It's true: certain pockets of Brooklyn are like Mars.

shouldn't overestimate the influence of the crazies or underestimate the influence of the "small business owner" -- the top 20%-thru-2% of the income ladder has more money than the 1%, put together

On a lighter but still serious note: how I wish pundits would stop wasting time covering where candidates take vacations.

sure. i do think that we're a notably fearful, angry and puritan nation, though.

― contenderizer, Friday, July 6, 2012 4:05 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

compared to the rest of the world not really so much, maybe compared to a few select european countries

The rest of the world is full of fearful, angry, and partisan nations!

There are certain aspects to America though I think make the population (generally speaking) worse though. Yeah, there are Le Pen voters, or National Front people in UK, etc..., but there's also a huge majority in those countries that understands that health care should be provided for all, and if anyone had to set up a travelling camp of doctors to treat the sick in their country would cause an unholy outrage (this has a lot to do with a better informed populace in countries like the UK, though smaller population might play a role). I think it has a lot to do with those hallowed myths of America as the land of opportunity that justly rewards hard work and everyone can just Pull Themselves Up By Their Bootstraps. When the ACA ruling came out, my Republican friend posted about how he had to get a shitty job to get health insurance when he got out of college, so why don't these lazy kids today - the mentality is "i had to go through shit and you should too" as opposed to "I had a shitty time of it so we should change things so future generations don't have to."

There's not much of an emphasis on critical thinking in our education system, at least not as much as there seem to be in certain European countries, and I think that + our cultural emphasis on tight family groups = individuals makes questioning things more difficult.

but people are shitty everywhere. I think in Europe there tends to be a more accepted out-and-out racism on a larger scale, while in America that's generally frowned upon, but that has also left the door open for huge swathes of passive racism that goes unchecked.

what abt places that are not america or certain european countries

you mean, like, Oregon?

*sniff* I prefer my Brooklyn joke *sniff *

There are certain aspects to America though I think make the population (generally speaking) worse though.

Base of operations for the scarier destructive fundies for two major world religions (xtianity & capitalism) imo.

you mean Israel and the Middle East?

well it's basically ridic to try to compare countries with such sweeping generalizations anyway, but i guess white, judeo-christian developed countries are the easiest way to go. it's easy to say that 'people are the same everywhere', and there's a truth to it, but the US is lagging behind other countries on a lot of issues like healthcare/social justice/basic quality of life, and that's despite being the wealthiest country in the world.

xposts

yeah, anti-intellectualism/family-based culture/honour thy father plays a role. Also the capitalism thing - we're trained to consume and buy into all the marketing bullshit creating a very narrow idea of freedom and happiness that is conformist etc etc etc

Sullivan turned up a great YouTube today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArRj-dQXX3Y

Is stuff like this going to be enough to overcome barely so-so jobs reports like today's? No idea anymore--but they are inconvenient.

glorious