the most important election of your lifetime: 2012 american general election thread

i'm always expressing astonishment that huge companies have somehow managed to get the lower-middle class to fight tooth and nail against their own interests, to the benefit of rich people, to the point of inspiring a bunch of people to don late 18th century revolutionary garb and stand on street corners trying to get people to honk horns. big oil/fossil fuel is pulling the same trick, only the net is much larger. it's managed to fool just about everyone.

i'm always expressing astonishment that huge companies have somehow managed to get the lower-middle class to fight tooth and nail against their own interests,

nail on the fucking head here, it really is amazing to watch people fight so hard against things that would totally benefit them!

i mean, its one of the greatest con jobs i've ever watched unfold.

theres another aspect to people 'fighting against their interests' which is that people have other interests than just like material comfort, they also have idealogical and moral interests which may out weigh other concerns, in fact when someone who we agree with puts ideology before material enrichment we generally applaud them - not saying people arent ever tricked or w/e but theres more going on than just that, they may actually deeply believe that its important for corporations to be able to put particles in the air or w/e and theyre willing to sacrifice for that

oh, that's totally true and a good point, but i guess i was pulling out of context a little and including some larger societal issues, like disadvantaged people fighting against financial aid programs and stuff like that.

yeah lots of ppl hate teh gays, brown people, "liberals" more than they hate being unemployed

even better if you can find a way to blame the ppl you hate for your unemployment

it helps

Mark Hammill:

"'Cause without him, I think the middle class will completely disappear. And you look at Romney—and I'm sure he's a nice guy, but I think he's like (ILX's favorite movie) The Thing: He only imitates human behavior. He's not actually human himself. "

It goes along with the fear right now that is causing people to beat the austerity/smaller government drum -- people see personal debt and the debt carried by local institutions as bad, but the national government and some city/state governments have the opportunity to not only boost productivity and employment by borrowing money at record lows, but to actually make money in the long term by doing so once things do take off.

The republicans claiming that people don't want the government to spend money to encourage the economy, yet constantly claim that encouraging business owners is a great idea, is the stupidest shit.

btw national review and rick perry have joined the list of republicans telling mitt to release his dang tax returns, feels like he might have to cave soon

what if mitt's big secret is that he has a gambling addiction and he actually lost lots of money?!?

he national government and some city/state governments have the opportunity to not only boost productivity and employment by borrowing money at record lows, but to actually make money in the long term by doing so once things do take off.

The republicans claiming that people don't want the government to spend money to encourage the economy, yet constantly claim that encouraging business owners is a great idea, is the stupidest shit.

― hot sauce delivery device (mh), Tuesday, July 17, 2012 6:12 PM (51 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

haha yes i always think abt this, you know what youd do if you were really interested in running the gov like a business, take advantage of this cheap ass money

i liked pierce's take on it -- there may or may not be anything damaging, but to mitt you're either his family or you're the help, and the help has no standing to ask you to disclose anything

also lol i was like 'is mark hammill some pundit i've never heard of?'

ya i suspect thats an important aspect, mitt is colossally arrogant, also i suspect theres damaging stuff in there

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012/07/bushiest-george-w-bush-quote-ever

See you've mentioned the National Review editorial:

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/309738/release-returns-editors

They even come close to using the same defense that Mark Shields was joking about the other night!

"But there is no scandal in that: Romney is a wealthy man — and he has complicated personal finances, something that is typical of wealthy men. In fact, Romney’s personal finances are a very good case study in what’s wrong with the American tax system and regulatory climate."

Reminds me of George Costanza: "I'm disturbed, I'm depressed, I'm inadequate--I've got it all!"

amazing thing abt these tax returns is even if romney releases ten years that doesnt nearly go back to when he started running for political office, he never bothered to clean the situation up, even tho hes been attacked for this behavior going back to the beginning when he ran for senate in the 90s, he just couldnt stop doing stuff to embarrass himself, hes addicted to not paying taxes, even tho he has more money than he could ever spend!

If you have that money you have a social obligation to be as fiscally responsible with it as possible, which means swiss bank accounts

between mitt and obama and mccain and w, presidential candidates sure do have some daddy issues

its a common one w/ambitious guys

You forgot Clinton.

Speaking of McCain

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entries/mccain-i-didnt-mean-palin-was-better-than

What McCain's trying to clean up there:

McCain said he had no issue with Mitt’s tax returns when vetting him for veep in 2008. But then he added, "We just thought Sarah Palin was a better candidate."

I get what he means--specific to our circumstances at that particular moment--but McCain reminds me of Bill Clinton in relation to Obama when he says thing like this (not the first time): his id still hates Romney.

http://i.imgur.com/9c0m9.jpg

a new theory http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2012/07/17/romney_s_tax_returns_is_the_2009_swiss_bank_account_amnesty_what_he_doesn_t_want_us_to_see_.html

And another one...Reihan Salam was just on CNN quoting a Bloomberg article that also points to 2009 as the key, but for a different reason (or maybe the two are related, I don't know): because of the meltdown, Romney would have claimed huge losses and paid a rate that was unfathomably low.

That doesn't make sense to me. Or rather, it does make sense--if an exceptionally low rate can be explained in terms of losses and the meltdown, my guess is a lot people would grimace and move on.

I can't release my tax returns, it will just give Obama more ammunition against me!

lol

honestly it almost doesn't matter what the details are, the more Romney talks about his money (and accompanying arcane financial matters that us poors can't even begin to comprehend) the deeper hole he digs himself

love the implication: "look, if i hadn't done anything wrong, i'd release them right away, no problem!"

I think he's getting some mileage from the "Obama doesn't really want people to be rich, look at how he demonizes me. You all want to be rich, so he hates you too. And America"

the more Romney talks about his money (and accompanying arcane financial matters that us poors can't even begin to comprehend) the deeper hole he digs himself

Yeah, one problem he has is that actually explaining what the hell he did for all that money -- even if you think it's the greatest thing in the world -- is pretty complicated. Whereas "He sucked companies dry like a vampire" has a nice simplicity.

all of it, really. oh, you retired in 1999 but were still getting paid more than nearly everyone in america for doing . . . nothing? oh, your 'blind' trust 'invested' $10m in your son's new venture?

having that much money attracts even more money from everywhere, which is just not an experience most americans have, whether they think they're soon to be the 1% or not.

it attracts only pennies, can barely bootstrap a business with $10m these days

"We've always encouraged young people – take a shot, go for it, take a risk and get the education, borrow money if you have to from your parents, start a business."

god bless u tagg

unbelievable

He added: "The world of finance is not as simple as some would have you believe."

"We've always encouraged young people – take a shot, go for it, take a risk and get the education, borrow money if you have to from your parents, start a business."

this remark is a really special gift imo

isn't that 3 months old? fresh copy, people.

The tax issue has been put to rest by Charles Krauthammer: "I believe in the honor of John McCain. He looked at them, he said they were okay, that's enough for me."

release the danged taxes!

omg @ "John McCain served this country. If you don't take his word about Romney's taxes you hate America"

please let this line work, we need a McCain interlude

"John McCain had his team look at Mitt Romney's tax records, and then chose Sarah Palin"

no, nothing to worry about there

hahahahaha

It is for public safety that he hasn't released the records, anyone attempting to fit their head around the arcane measures* within is subject to temporary insanity for a week afterwards.

* including but not limited to One Weird Trick.

my god the Corner comments on the post to Krauthammer's wisdom...

it's like October '08 again.

does any thinking person doubt the Obama camp has those records already. They can just go ahead an release them themselves.

Guys, Obama is the president, I'm sure he just had Romney's returns sent over, that's what presidents can do.