Andrei Tarkovsky: POO

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Amateurist - lenses, yes (what I meant by "color", I guess)

Reed Moore (diamond), Thursday, 2 September 2004 20:33 (nineteen years ago) link

an antonioni mailing list!! is it active? annoying? interesting? what?

amateur!!st, Thursday, 2 September 2004 20:33 (nineteen years ago) link

The festival's unqualified masterpiece this year was Russian director Aleksandr Sokurov's Whispering Pages. Sokurov's previous work, heavily influenced by Andrei Tarkovsky, tended to be arcanely allusive, impenetrably hermetic, and dense with metaphysical abstraction. Whispering Pages is just as uncompromisingly obscurantist, but it rises to a level of enigmatic grandeur and hypnotic, purely cinematic power that formerly eluded Sokurov.

An anonymous young man wanders through a dreamlike, decaying, 19th century urban labyrinth; he has a series of encounters, like fragments from some long-obliterated narrative (the incidents are in fact derived from Crime and Punishment and Gogol). In the film's most memorable sequence, he looks on as a series of people inexplicably launch themselves into a mysterious, bottomless abyss--it could almost be an image of Sokurov's own brand of cinematic black hole.

Charged with supernatural and psychic suggestiveness, Whispering Pages' narrative doesn't so much move as insinuate, accompanied by the haunting strains of Mahler's "Kindertotenmusik" and a faint cacophony of distant voices and sounds on the soundtrack. In long takes Sokurov's camera creeps insidiously through this timeless, spectral underworld, more attentive to atmosphere and texture than action. The sparse dialogue scenes might as well be the fill between the real action--Sokurov's uncanny extended transitions. Employing a vocabulary of mournful pans, slow-as-molasses dissolves, radically desaturated color, degraded, murky textures, speed shifts within shots, and warped perspectives and compositions care of a custom-built anamorphic lens, Sokurov takes the cinematic atavism he shares with Guy Maddin and the Brothers Quay to new extremes of dreamlike suspension. This formal archaism conspires with the trancelike acting, and the absurd gravity of the action to produce a genuinely mysterious, mesmerizing effect. Mainly filmed in a disused St. Petersburg factory, Sokurov's masterly film is an Industrial Gothic epitaph for a civilization in the throes of slow death.

amateur!!st, Thursday, 2 September 2004 20:36 (nineteen years ago) link

Kindertotenmusik

er, that's "kindertotenlieder," but anyway

amateur!!st, Thursday, 2 September 2004 20:37 (nineteen years ago) link

Nah, it's not too active. But there are a few smart folks on there. Maybe 10 messages a month on average? But most recent was the exciting news that EROS, the Antonioni/Wong Kar-Wai/Soderberg film is set to screen in Toronto...

http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/antonioni/

Reed Moore (diamond), Thursday, 2 September 2004 20:37 (nineteen years ago) link

i wonder if that description will actually entice anyone

xpost

i don't think i'd actually look forward to a new antonioni movie, but the short that played twice at the landmark century ("the gaze of michelangelo") was supposedly pretty interesting

amateur!!st, Thursday, 2 September 2004 20:39 (nineteen years ago) link

yeah I totally missed that short -- didn't even know it was there! But apparently it's going to be travelling with EROS. I think someone said that anyway.

Reed Moore (diamond), Thursday, 2 September 2004 20:40 (nineteen years ago) link

Also "Sac Orifice" - but that may not be an actual film.

It should be.

Girolamo Savonarola, Thursday, 2 September 2004 22:13 (nineteen years ago) link

Whispering Pages! that's the Sokurov film I heard about and keep trying to find here in the US.. there was a Sokurov retrospective when I was in Paris and I missed it, knowing I'd been recommended it but not remembering the title. (I ended up sitting through an unbearably desolate and slow moving Sokurov film about a doctor in a small town in - I think - Azerbaijan, and don't know what that was called either).

Anyway, Tarkovsky.. Nostalghia. Doesn't make sense, but I love it. I like that the woman just gets fed up and disappears from the film. Also, I am kind of disturbed yet fascinated by the fact that there's a reference (almost the same room, same bed) in Takashi Miike's Audition to this film. I don't know what to make of it. A very close second for me would be Andrei Rublev.

daria g (daria g), Friday, 3 September 2004 05:42 (nineteen years ago) link

"desolate and slow moving" describes whispering pages fairly well, in fact. i don't know about unbearable, though i got a sort of unpleasant feeling of overload about an hour into the film and had to go outside to breath some fresh air before returning to the cinema.

amateur!!!st (amateurist), Friday, 3 September 2004 05:47 (nineteen years ago) link

mirror is the first one i watched, and my favourite. i guess its extrem disjointedness (more so than any of his others) is what attracts me. its totally an experience than a consumption of narrative/plot etc.

but yeah after that the bell chapter of rublev is killer.

re: tarkovksy refs, loved the scene in uzak where the guy was flicking between stalker and porn!

ambrose (ambrose), Friday, 3 September 2004 14:00 (nineteen years ago) link

I thought the new one was a fresh reading and reworking of the book, [...]

wow, really? it struck me as a poor 'cover' of tarkovsky's original, with anything that would confuse americans removed. but maybe i'll re-read the book and watch it again.

"stalker" is my favorite. i was half-awake when i started watching it, which seemed to help me pay attention, oddly. dream logic!

el sabor de gene (yournullfame), Friday, 3 September 2004 22:30 (nineteen years ago) link

the new solaris is one of my favorite movies ever, actually... i understand what would
motivate a comment like '...with anything that would confuse americans removed.' but
either you're over-estimating the average american or you're underassessing the film
because most of the people whose interest lie more in the mainstream that i've spoken
to have found the film slow/boring/pretentious/too vague/whatever...

i thought it was brilliantly filmed and concise. 90 minutes happens to be the perfect
length for most stories, imho.

it was definitely not as (willfully) obscure as the original. but who cares? i'm all
for more clarity where possible. leave it to umberto eco adaptations or misbegotten
thomas pynchon television pilots to leave people with brains agape,

and i've never seen a movie that justified four hours running time (re: the original).

firstworldman (firstworldman), Friday, 3 September 2004 23:01 (nineteen years ago) link

As long as we're on the subject, here's a link I've found to a version of Stalker available via Ruscico:

http://www.ruscico.com/eng/films/105

Now is this the only current version available, or is there a Stateside version?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 3 September 2004 23:28 (nineteen years ago) link

On DVD, I should clarify.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 3 September 2004 23:28 (nineteen years ago) link

i think there's a tarksovky website (at www.nostalghia.com maybe??) that has notes on all the tarkovsky DVDs out there--the differences between them, recommendations, etc.

amateur!!!st (amateurist), Friday, 3 September 2004 23:32 (nineteen years ago) link

*checks* And you are quite correct!

http://www.acs.ucalgary.ca/~tstronds/nostalghia.com/

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 3 September 2004 23:37 (nineteen years ago) link

Among other things they link to an exhaustive comparison of the three DVD version of Andrei Rublev:

http://dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDCompare5/andreirublev.htm

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 3 September 2004 23:40 (nineteen years ago) link

apparently ruscico (or was it gosmofilmfund?) took it upon themselves to "improve" the final sequence of andrei rublev by digitally "restoring" the examples of rublev's artwork WTF?!?!?!

amateur!!!st (amateurist), Friday, 3 September 2004 23:41 (nineteen years ago) link

And here's the page Amst mentioned specifically

http://www.acs.ucalgary.ca/~tstronds/nostalghia.com/TheTopics/DVD_Recommendations.html

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 3 September 2004 23:45 (nineteen years ago) link

eight months pass...
i was about to ask whether i should head off to the cinema to see the new print of "Andrei Rublev" tonight but, after reading the thread, the answer is, of course, "yes"!

jed_ (jed), Monday, 30 May 2005 15:33 (eighteen years ago) link

three months pass...
What is a dinosaur's favorite Tarkovsky movie?

k/l (Ken L), Friday, 23 September 2005 13:35 (eighteen years ago) link

(waiting patiently for punchline)

Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 23 September 2005 13:41 (eighteen years ago) link

*tries, patiently, to punch the line*

t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Friday, 23 September 2005 13:52 (eighteen years ago) link

*keeps missing*

t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Friday, 23 September 2005 13:53 (eighteen years ago) link

i get it.

N_RQ, Friday, 23 September 2005 13:53 (eighteen years ago) link

*doesn't*

t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Friday, 23 September 2005 13:57 (eighteen years ago) link

i don't.

Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 23 September 2005 13:58 (eighteen years ago) link

Andrei Rublev but perhaps mainly because one of the scenes inspired a short film that I actually got off my ass to write and produce. The scene where the "witch" is chased naked into the river by the group of people. And yes, the bell sequence is brilliant.

Nostalgia for the scene when he's trying to walk across the bottom of the swimming pool again and again.

Mirror for the mother washing hair dream sequence.

Didn't like The Sacrifice much.


Thea (Thea), Friday, 23 September 2005 13:58 (eighteen years ago) link

I'm afraid to see My Name is Ivan because I have a younger brother and I get all shook up by harrowing "loss of innocence" stories.

Thea (Thea), Friday, 23 September 2005 13:59 (eighteen years ago) link

You guys should read the Mod Req board more- especially you, Norm.

k/l (Ken L), Friday, 23 September 2005 14:09 (eighteen years ago) link

THE MIRROR! i've taken andrei rublev out of the library one hundred times and never watched it. too long.

caitlin oh no (caitxa1), Friday, 23 September 2005 14:24 (eighteen years ago) link

Andrei Rublev is probably my favorite movie ever. I can't think of anything that covers so much ground and says so much so completely and above all so humanly. It's genuinely cathartic in a way that just about nothing else is. It's tough to put into words just how total an experience it is without sounding like a douche, but I've never seen a movie that's affected me as deeply.

And while the animal stuff is unpleasant, the cow didn't actually get hurt - it was asbestos burning, not its skin. The horse did actually die, but at least it was shot and already dead by the time it fell down the stairs. It was also supposed to be killed anyway (not by the filmmakers, though I can't remember the exact situation), which doesn't excuse the violence or anything but is worth noting nonetheless.

My Name is Ivan/Ivan's Childhood is really, really fantastic, and you should see it if you've got the chance. It's harrowing, but there are so many amazing parts - it has a few scenes shot in a birch forest that are really a treat for yr eye. And Nikolai Burlyayev fucking owns Ivan. By the time he became the bellmaker in Rublev Tarkovsky said he was a real pain in the ass to work with (and you can tell in his acting) because he thought of himself as a big star after Ivan.

Zack Richardson (teenagequiet), Friday, 23 September 2005 14:28 (eighteen years ago) link

I do read the mod request board! (I'm a mod in ilm) Ok I get it now (I have images turned off generally)

Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 23 September 2005 14:33 (eighteen years ago) link

This is douche-y cineaste talk but it helps to see Andrei R. on a big screen - it helps keep you connected with it because it is so long.

Thea (Thea), Friday, 23 September 2005 14:41 (eighteen years ago) link

Yeah, I knew that, Pash, that's why I said it. No harm done.

k/l (Ken L), Friday, 23 September 2005 14:53 (eighteen years ago) link

That's not pretentious, Thea, I'm in total agreement, who can sit at home and watch a three hour movie without getting distracted these days?

k/l (Ken L), Friday, 23 September 2005 14:55 (eighteen years ago) link

ha, yeah. Though friends I've dragged to Andrei have fallen asleep in the cinema as well.

Thea (Thea), Friday, 23 September 2005 14:59 (eighteen years ago) link

I fell asleep all the time at the cinema. It's not necessarily a putdown of the movie, sometimes it's the only time I can relax. Dozing off for a few minutes gives me something to look forward to discovering the next time I see it.

k/l (Ken L), Friday, 23 September 2005 15:04 (eighteen years ago) link

I've been watching Andrei Rublev in 45 minute chunks over the last week and it helps with the viewing a lot. It's a frigging mammoth film and I'm enjoying it even if I'm losing some continuity. I'll pick up the Mirror next but Stalker sounds like a must see, as well.

Tripmaker (SDWitzm), Friday, 23 September 2005 15:07 (eighteen years ago) link

falling asleep in cinema > trying to watch vid at home and getting distracted

yes

Thea (Thea), Friday, 23 September 2005 15:08 (eighteen years ago) link

Andrei Rublev

M. V. (M.V.), Friday, 23 September 2005 17:15 (eighteen years ago) link

Nostalghia is my favourite - mostly for the photography, partially for the drunken-talk-with-little-girl
(of course, knee-deep in water), and the lunatic-on-fire scene (which I'm assuming
was inspired by the SPK).
Stalker is #2 - mostly for the photography (the transitions between almost-mono
to vibrant green, etc) also the plot is great (that is, the three character's motives
and changes of heart). The novel it's based on ("Roadside Picnic") is
amazing, and impossible to find, so I made a PDF of it: http://www.cca.org/cm
After that, Andrei Rublev - mostly for the photography, also the bell-making
sequence is fantastic. The DVD I have is three and a half hours. The first
time I watched it, I immediately watched it again. (I watch Tarkovsky movies
with the subtitles on about half the time. I don't understand Russian,
but I know them all inside-out, and I'm more interested in the images.)
Ivan, Mirror, and Steamroller & Violin are all good.
Solaris is ok. It was what introduced me to him (since I'm a huge Lem fan)
but after seeing his other films, I don't find it very interesting.
Sacrifice sucked. Some people work well under intense pressure and difficult
situations. Some people then flee the USSR and are treated like gods in
Sweden and given anything they want. And they then produce an intensely
stupid final film. The photography is good though.
(Those were planes, not ICBMs.)
Also, Nikolai Burlyayev, who played the lead roles in Ivan's Childhood and
the bell sequence of Rublev, is AMAZING when he's angry.
Tarkovsky's book, "Sculpting in Time" *sucks*. His diary however, is
fantastic. (In the intro to Sculpting in Time, he admits that he tends
to ramble pointlessly when talking in monologue - he only speaks well when
in debate. The diary avoids this problem by having extremely sparse and
functional entries.)

shieldforyoureyes, Friday, 23 September 2005 18:11 (eighteen years ago) link

I love watching Tarkovsky when I'm home sick.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Friday, 23 September 2005 18:13 (eighteen years ago) link

Andrei Rublev I should watch again, I wrote a paper on it a while ago and went through it several times, but is there a longer or different cut that's released now? I don't remember the scenes with the cow or the horse.

Sacrifice has some lovely scenes but doesn't work at all.. a shame. I have no idea what it was trying to do.

dar1a g (daria g), Saturday, 24 September 2005 04:00 (eighteen years ago) link

home sick or homesick?

stalker is my favorite of them all... such a well sustained air of magic and intrigue. it makes me happy to hope for the chance to work in a creative field. as far as the hope it instills with me, it is maybe second only to 'la jetee'.

no one seems to have said this yet, but i... ummm... prefer the soderbergh 'solaris'. it warms me.

firstworldman (firstworldman), Saturday, 24 September 2005 08:40 (eighteen years ago) link

in sculpting in time, he said that the end 10 minute section of "rublev" was intended to give the audience a break from watching the previous 3 hrs. they used that b&w/colour trick in "eureka" too, and that was about 3 hrs i think.

the reason i like tarkovsky films is that they are really good to fall asleep too. i cant understand it bein g a criticism of a film "i wanted to fall asleep". thats a really good thing for me!

anyone seen any larrisa shepitko films? she was a friend of tarkovskys and her films have a similar quality although they are more brutal. i only saw "the ascent" and "proshanie (farewell?)" but they were both really good. i think they were on at the ica and in leeds a while back. also, on the subject of soviet filmakers, the paradjanov season is coming to leeds soon too! good job i moved to sheffield :(

ambrose (ambrose), Saturday, 24 September 2005 09:19 (eighteen years ago) link

xpost
Tarkovsky is good when you have a cold and need to fill up a day.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Saturday, 24 September 2005 14:53 (eighteen years ago) link

Rublev!

Roxymuzak, Mrs. Carbohydrate (roxymuzak), Saturday, 24 September 2005 14:58 (eighteen years ago) link

one year passes...

Rublev for me, from the ones I've seen -- really gotta serach some medieval Russian choral music

Tarkovsky related, innit? Can't wait!

xyzzzz__, Sunday, 24 June 2007 09:54 (sixteen years ago) link

Mirror gets Criterioned.

https://www.criterion.com/films/28894-mirror

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 15 April 2021 16:14 (three years ago) link

nine months pass...

Saw something about fiftieth anniversary of the premiere of Solaris.

Ferryboat Bill Jr. (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 9 February 2022 13:44 (two years ago) link

I'll have to drive aimlessly on the freeway for 50 minutes in commemoration.

Halfway there but for you, Wednesday, 9 February 2022 15:09 (two years ago) link

I’m going to stare at some algae drifting in my pond for this afternoon

snarl self own (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 9 February 2022 16:05 (two years ago) link

gonna go see solaris tomorrow at the IFC

i cannot help if you made yourself not funny (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 9 February 2022 16:20 (two years ago) link

Ah fuuuuuuuuck really? Is it on widescreen (SovScope!)

Johnny Mathis der Maler (Boring, Maryland), Wednesday, 9 February 2022 17:58 (two years ago) link

never saw it before! or the remake for that matter. i hear soylent green is people.

i cannot help if you made yourself not funny (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 9 February 2022 22:30 (two years ago) link

Mods!

Ferryboat Bill Jr. (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 9 February 2022 23:32 (two years ago) link

Anyone else read the book review/profile of Stanisław Lem in a recent New Yorker? Interesting life.

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 9 February 2022 23:52 (two years ago) link

I want to, before I die, see both Solaris (the original) and Andrei Rublev on a widescreen. From what I have read they were both filmed in 180 mm.

Johnny Mathis der Maler (Boring, Maryland), Thursday, 10 February 2022 00:07 (two years ago) link

xp That Lem profile was fascinating. I've only read his Futurological Congress and a few short stories (have only seen the movie of Solaris), but I've been meaning to dig deeper. Lots of science fiction gets called mind-bending, but no other book has bent my mind or made me laugh as hard as The Futurological Congress

J. Sam, Thursday, 10 February 2022 01:26 (two years ago) link

i read the lem profile as well, promptly bought a book that is now somewhere in the middle of the pile

i cannot help if you made yourself not funny (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 10 February 2022 02:11 (two years ago) link

eight months pass...

Tarkovsky. Dancing. pic.twitter.com/UTckA4qLFi

— Janus Films (@janusfilms) October 28, 2022

koogs, Saturday, 29 October 2022 12:20 (one year ago) link


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