the most important election of your lifetime: 2012 american general election thread

i also would be totally more respectful to people who were like "i'm not voting because i'm bringing the fucking revolution" and you know, they were actually working towards that.

I have a different, more parochial reason for voting -- I'm in a totally red state that will not even be close to being in contention, but I live in a city that tends to narrowly vote Democratic, and there's symbolic significance in that to me. It means something to be able to say, yes, this state and this county are hardcore Bible-belt conservative, but we're not all like that. It's easy for those of us in voting minorities in these states to just be totally ignored, like we don't even exist, so being able to say that the city-limits vote has gone for the Democrat the last five elections in a row is worth something to me. I might feel differently if I still lived in NYC, but here casting that vote, however flawed the candidate, feels like a kind of civic self-assertion.

If the two evils get you to the EXACT same place in 40 years or less -- ie, Eternal Fuckitude -- how does this change the moral equation?

can we talk some more about how hilariously weaselly Paul Ryan's speech was

you call your couch Eternal Fuckitude?

I mean I know MORBZBOT and everything but how many time have we had this argument

hey he tsked talking about the infomercials so why not

so many times xp

xposts

Also btw when you actually live surrounded by and engulfed in Bible-belt conservatism, the real, visceral differences between the major-party worldviews becomes a lot more stark and obvious.

I don't have a couch, dude, I have the same not-really-convertible bed I've been sleeping on for 10 years bcz I'm too rent-poor to get a new one.

ironically, the apocalyptic history POV has so much cultural currency bc the current political parties invest so much energy in convincing the electorate that the world will end if their opponent is elected. morbz is really just turning that against the ppl pushing that idea hard. the correct position tho is abandoning this asinine 'end of the world' shit altogether.

truth bomb

the world is always ending

hv you heard abt the ice caps, Mordy?

the only way not voting is a "moral" choice is that you believe voting makes you implicit in the crimes of the person you're voting for in a way that simply living in america and enjoying its privileges doesn't. which is really, really stupid.

no plz tell me about these ice caps do u put them on soda bottles?

yeah Shakey, it's really fucking ending now

voting doesn't matter, don't think too hard about it

yeah Shakey, it's really fucking ending now

so troll 'em if you got 'em

croup, we are all guilty, but what can I tell ya, suicide hurts.

kinda can't believe morbz wasn't the one kicking dead neil armstrong on the r.i.p. thread. but he does like nostalgia.

also I had an Apollo scrapbook

i also would be totally more respectful to people who were like "i'm not voting because i'm bringing the fucking revolution" and you know, they were actually working towards that.

"working toward the revolution" does not involve going to the polls.

i honestly don't know what you think i said that stands in opposition to what you're saying

yeah, it involves a lot of stuff Morb also doesn't do, but doesn't act all proud of not doing (xpost)

i also would be totally more respectful to people who were like "i'm not voting because i'm bringing the fucking revolution" and you know, they were actually working towards that.

This is AMERICA, ain't never gonna happen til ppl can't get a Wifi signal.

~~deep~~

who's voting for Gary Johnson?

lol pretty much all we got for a revolutionary movement here is going to meetings & demos which I'd guess Morbs has logged more hours in than anybody on this board including me

it's not even september, y'all

"This is AMERICA, ain't never gonna happen til ppl can't get a Wifi signal," he posted online.

what this revolution needs is...more meetings

idk man I mean I call you out hard for dragging personal shit into threads croup so to put it as gently as I can, I think you calling Dr. Morbius out on his privilege is nagl & it rankles me & that's where I'm at w/this. I'm voting for the Democrat, "we got health insurance," w/e. A principled stance is also valid.

I can see why one would be wary of Obama, but if there was any lesson clearly conveyed by Bush, it's that a terrible pres. completely in his party's pocket can be massively destructive. it's not Romney I'm worried about, it's the psychos he'd appoint, and the psycho bills he would sign into law. Obama might not be much better, but his biggest mistakes seem to me those than align most closely with the most modest of conservative policies, which would proliferate and magnify under Romney, and last longer. Obama's been mired in the short time, cleaning up and dealing with short term messes; I wish he were as profligate and radical as his critics contend. What scares me about Republicans, at least the last couple generations of Republicans, is how heavily they weigh the long game. They're happy to screw everyone to ensure they way gets written into law for future generations.

croup pulling that "OCCUPY is so stupid, they all have corporate-made laptops" crap

his biggest mistakes seem to me those than align most closely with the most modest of conservative policies, which would proliferate and magnify under Romney

except foreign policy, which is radical

not to interrupt this spat, but as a dude from a trad super liberal deep blue state that in 2010 managed to elect the first repub majority in both houses since before i was born, i reserve the right to be extremely nervous and squirrely about the idea that people in blue states can protest vote willy-nilly in this race.

if morbz has gone to more meetings & demos than anyone that's super, and doesn't change what i said. aero, i'm sorry if you have a problem with me calling out morbz' privilege when he dismisses the issues that distinguish the parties, but believe me that i'm coming from a principled place too.

new york is not minnesota

interesting, tell me more

"working toward the revolution" does not involve going to the polls.

OTMFM

seriously who has disagreed with that statement

croup, do your "distinguishing issues" include the ones where Obama has been demonstrably worse than Bush from a lib/left POV, as in prosecution of whistleblowers and codifying extrajudicial assassinations?

aero, i'm sorry if you have a problem with me calling out morbz' privilege when he dismisses the issues that distinguish the parties, but believe me that i'm coming from a principled place too.

I get that, and respect it, but a person of measurably greater privilege telling one with less "be grateful for what you've got" (or, worse, mocking a person for not being grateful for his modest means)...that bit is beneath you

Man, the entitlement I see in the face of reality is disconcerting. We don't deserve anything, we make it, and we only make it in the more or less fucked up world we live on and in the times we live in. Not seeing the difference between Obama's somewhat cynical foreign policy (tinged with some clear-eyed realism) and the neo-con fantasies that Romney is obliged to genuflect to (whether he means any of it, is anyone's guess - Mitt probably doesn't even know) is to willfully refuse to engage w/reality 'cause it won't provide you with unicorns. It's not particularly helpful, either. Obama recognized the utility of democratic reform in North Africa and also the stupidity of committing too much American assitance except when really useful (Libya). Obama has realized that Asia is the area most in need of American defense but he's not needlessly provoking the PLA while Romney and Ryan bluster on about standing up to China. Obama has been devious but firm with Iran while Romney has implied he'd attack or easily condone an Israeli attack. Much of the Republican electorate want a war on Islam, for whatever reasons. Obama does not and, since Iraq and Afghanistan are inherited and unwinnable wars, he's been as crafty as any elected Democratic president in declaring victory and going home - no easy feat. I'm as uneasy about the drone wars and extraordinary renditions and Gitmo, etc... as anybody but until the American electorate explicitly repudiate them, no American president can afford not to have recourse to them and no caucus will back him or her, if they tried.

hope revolution involves planning a mass extermination of American citizens because it's probably the only way to get a majority on the issue of "we don't want to bomb the fuck out of foreigners" because hey right now we're a war-loving people and SUPPORT OUR TROOPS etc and we unfortunately live in a democracy but hey i'm glad the opposition to this is protesting by not participating it in it so they can feel better about themselves but whatever this argument is boring boring boring and we've had it too many times before and we know where everyone stands so i echo the post that wants to swing this around to just how weasly eddie munster's speech was.

MW - you were too appreciative of Obama there get out

or are ppl who are victimized by those actions not real enough? xxxxp

we have not "gone home" from Iraq. We are not going to anytime soon.

since i'm now a registered cook county voter i may take this opportunity not to vote BUT my feelings on this election are basically: even if it's true that romney & obama would "govern the same" (it's not at all, but let's run with it) i think setting the precedent that it's cool for someone like mitt romney -- who ran bain, hides his money offshore, pays nothing in taxes and acts like no one has the right to call him on it-- to be president could lead to really, really shitty things down the line. even symbolically it bothers me greatly. and yes i do realize that we've long past the point where those sort of people are running the country (GWB, any various congressmen) but i don't know.

it's a bit funny to me that the last election was really seen as this culture war but in reality i think it more applies to this one, just in terms of the person who the GOP is running

a person of measurably greater privilege telling one with less "be grateful for what you've got" (or, worse, mocking a person for not being grateful for his modest means)...that bit is beneath you

i honestly thought this was a "from one new york pro-am film critic to another" thing but maybe you know more about our lives than i do