Chicago MMXII

plz don't quote me on that, I can't even find the source (but I think it was on fb, got 3 different teacher friends, one of them is a 'strike captain' and I think he posted it)

Power in numbers.

btw same dude posted he was making lesson plans last night at like 10PM, tell that to any jerks who say teachers don't work outside of normal hours

Nah all teachers are fat and lazy non-contributers that do nothing but sit on their ass all summer and bitch about life not being fair.

NB - this is not my opinion, but a paraphrasing of the blowhard I was unfortunate enough to be within earshot of the other night.

Teachers work very hard, and long hours, with little reward and little support. But they do have pretty good benefits, by and large. And OK pay. It's a tough negotiating position, from a public perspective, to strike for more when they already have more than many, however hard the job. For example, one of the sticking points I guess is the ability to rehire ("recall") fired teachers from closed schools whenever new positions open up. I like the sound of that, but it's also a pretty sweet deal, if not perpetual job security than certainly a big help.

I think one of the problems here are the number of handshake deals and good-faith compromises that went down over the past few years in lieu of formal negotiations and contracts. Now the arguments are over amorphous agreements, which will be tough to settle, let alone to roll into new contracts that also incorporate new demands.

It just seems weird to complain about allegedly superfluous legacy government employees that cost too much and could be let go when one of the major concerns of the teacher's union is retaining the power to basically prevent the government from firing teachers it considers superfluous and closing schools it thinks are unnecessary.

Apples and oranges. Legacy gov't employees are 1) non-union and 2) in positions created specifically for them as a political payback/gift and 3) the same people who want to fire underperforming teachers will not fire patronage bozos.

Also the government does not define "unnecessary" the same way neighborhoods and teachers and parents do, which is part of the problem. "This school is underperforming and lacks attendance and is therefore unnecessary" says the government, when in reality, the school's getting no money for books or AC and the class sizes are huge and it's dangerous so of course it's underperforming and of course nobody wants to go there.

Being able to terminate poor performers is hard to argue with, especially since I have (to be fair) seen first hand how frustrating it is to need to fire somebody who just totally sucks at their job and life but face numerous obstacles to do so, so I get it. BUT 1) don't tie performance into standardized test scores; and 2) there are ways to fire shitty employees under union contracts, but it takes longer and it requires management to proactively do their jobs with reprimands and writeups and counseling.

Teacher pay is not that great and the "amazing benefits for public employees" is a thing of the past thanks to budget cuts and previous union concessions.

I think one of the problems here are the number of handshake deals and good-faith compromises that went down over the past few years in lieu of formal negotiations and contracts.

Labor agreements are in writing, either in the actual CBA or in memos of understanding or supplemental agreements, or based on past practice, which if it meets specific criteria is as binding as written provisions. So handshake deals, if put into practice, equal contract provisions.

Is the reported number wrong that the average Chicago teacher salary is $70K?

I thought I read 76 somewhere.

I have seen the 70k number repeated a lot

I think that's reasonable, but I'm a firm believer that a rising tide lifts all ships. Also that teachers should be compensated as professional-level workers.

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/06/12/how-much-do-chicago-public-school-teachers-make/#.UE34kYFchsE.facebook

I wonder how that averages out, though, with seniority, etc.

One of our clients got a new job at a CPS (not a teacher). She went through her orientation last week and today would have been her first day of real work, but instead it was off to the picket line.

She actually stepped away from the picket for a moment to call us about her lawsuit against the school she used to work for. Lol. She's like a right winger's perfect enemy.

70k?

70k?

are you fucking kidding me?

on what planet is that?

Planet Chicago.

And hey, that's the average, apparently.

I had thought it was lower, because a friend of mine who's a CPS teacher was making more like 40K--but then I remembered that that might've been when she was teaching at a Catholic school before switching jobs.

anyway what that 70k number means is that there are some some teachers with 30 year seniority who are pulling 100+

josh in chicago back to math class

"70k average" means if you go into a school and grab a teacher by the arm and say "hey how much do you make?" they say "why 70k of course" and if you ask 50 teachers most of them will tell you that.

in the last school district i worked in in california, the average was 81k, which meant there were a handful of people who had phds and 20+ years and were making 125k - which if you think about it, getting 125k for working 20 years with a phd in silicon valley is kinda peanuts - and a whole lot of people

i want to know the median and mode teacher pay, if you will

anyway is salary at the top of list of demands or at the bottom?

Can't go to math class, teachers on strike.

Supposedly, salary is not even an issue in this strike, which is what's so weird and/or dubious.

isn't the standardized testing stuff related to teacher evaluations which is what the whole 'shutting down schools and opening non-union charter' tactic hinges on? seemed like that was a big bone of contention to me.

― DX Dx DX (dan m), Monday, September 10, 2012 7:39 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

bingo.

That's one. And then there's the issue of schools being able to rehire back fired teachers if spaces open up. Those are to two big sticking points. But I've seen a litany of demands, from A/C units to more social workers to, yes, better pay, to account for rising health insurance costs.

also AFAICT rahm asked teachers to spend several extra hours (was it 130 min?) PER DAY at school without essentially paying them for those extra hours. so the token "raise" the city is offering is, if you factor in 100s of additional hours, actually a huge wage cut. rahm hired an independent fact-finder who (oops!) sided with the union on this issue, and then rahm dismissed the fact-finder.

this is a fight over the direction of "public" education not just over wages+benefits though, even though most news reports make it sound like the latter because the other stuff is complicated.

also i might be coming down this weekend to walk some picket lines so if anyone wants to have a picket line FAP just holla.

Also that teachers should be compensated as professional-level workers.

I totally agree with this, 100%, if not more. But then I look at that $70k number and realize, holy shit thats more than I make as someone with both a Master's Degree and a license in a very specific, highly trained profession.

i just looked up the average pay for a plumber in chicago and got $60k

I make as someone with both a Master's Degree and a license in a very specific, highly trained profession.

oh hey are you a teacher?

lol, no. i'm genuinely not trying to turn this into a "teachers are overpaid" because they're not. i'm just posting my reaction to that $70k number when i heard it, i'd love to be making that right now.

true dat. i'm making less than half that. teachers should probably shut up about wages, except that--again--emanuel asked them to work an extra 130 minutes a day with only a token raise--which is effectively a huge pay cut. would you work 20% more each day for a 2% raise and be happy about it?

this is a fight over the direction of "public" education not just over wages+benefits though, even though most news reports make it sound like the latter because the other stuff is complicated.

this is OTM when based on what I've heard from all the teachers I know

if i was a public-school teacher (well, i am, just at the higher-ed level), i'd sooner take a pay cut than be asked to teach classes of 40+ students. at that size you're basically just wrangling, not teaching.

i came up through the chicago public schools and i remember my classes that had 30+ or 35+ students and it was a fucking mess. teacher was harried, students got no individualized attention, you felt lost.

btw the last time CTU went on strike was 1987 and i was on the picket line w/ my teachers.

yeah i'm going to step out because talking about it makes me research it which leads me to understand what joe comments box thinks

- teachers get 1/4 of the year off! (try seven or eight weeks)
- teachers work from 7 to 3 w/ a paid lunch!
- teachers have ironclad job security and can never be fired!
- most teachers just pass out worksheets and do shit!
- most teachers are just people who can't succeed in a real profession!
- most teachers get a 100% pension at age 55 and the same medical benefits the governor gets!

etc etc etc

yeah the anti-union hate comes out real strong in comments

have you read the phrase "union thugs" yet? you know, those ladies who teach kindergarten, they'll fuck a man up.

what a fucked-up backward society we live in that people can direct all this hate at TEACHERS for fuck's sake.

Should stress that I don't think teachers are overpaid, either, though I do think they are paid enough, which may also explain why the union is being very careful not to bring up pay (even though it is swimming somewhere in there among their demands, and not just related to the extra hours being required of them).

Also, stuff like class size, even that comes down to money, because smaller classes means more schools and more teachers. Which does not seem in the cards, no matter how well they carve up the budget.

Per the fight over public education, that's why a lot of people feel this strike was pre-ordained and that the demands, as such, are slightly disingenuous. The teachers wanted, maybe needed, to make a point, especially given what's been going on with unions on a national level. That's why it's such a very delicate balance they need to strike (so to speak). Too strident and they loose support, which hurts them in the long run. Not strident enough and they get branded push-overs. And all along, there are those people who would brand them lazy and greedy and all deserving to be fired. You know, like Reagan did to the air traffic controllers.

true, as part of a teacher's union i do think some demands are kind of unreasonable given current state of economy and should be dropped. that usually fell on deaf ears at member meetings, though.

they do have pretty good benefits, by and large. And OK pay. It's a tough negotiating position, from a public perspective, to strike for more when they already have more than many, however hard the job

anyway i'm NOT part of the teacher's union and in general i think the teacher's union in california is not a very good thing but the part about having more than many just has me smdh

bottom line though: nobody strikes as an indulgence. it's a major disruption in the lives of those striking, and puts you in a very precarious situation. so when folks strike these days (any time in the last 30 years, really), i start by assuming they've got a legit beef. in this case, they have a whole slate of legit beefs.

This would be an excellent occasion for the president to fulfill his remark from 2008 that he couldn't wait to walk a picket line as POTUS. Bet it happens tomorrow!

lol

morbius your remark is more annoying and disappointing than obama's imo

he was always bullshitting when he said that though, i knew from the beginning.

yes, his lips were moving

Romney has already jumped into this particular fray. How is this strike playing out on the national level? Is it being covered on TV and stuff? (I don't have cable)

yeah and i bet that c*nt b*tch of a wife isn't going to walk either, right morbius?