it's like a home for anorgasmic people! a thread for anorgasmia and difficulty in getting off

idk, maybe being the person you are, it just doesn't happen in certain ways, or at least not obviously?

it's kind of one of those things where the more you analyze, the more elusive

een, that can be a thing! But not for everyone.

orgasms are nice but not at all necessary in enjoyable sex for me

solo orgasms >>>>>> doubles orgasms anyway

i could stand to quit porn though

eh, I'm the dude who prefers thinking about someone he cares about, or just abstaining (not forced, just escapes me)

oh yeah this doesn't partic diminish my enjoyment of sex. the worst thing it does is that girls i'm in long-term relationships with invariably develop complexes about it. i would too!

IO, if you don't mind me asking, have you ever been with a partner who didn't really care/didn't see it as any kind of "problem" that you couldn't come in their presence?

i've always imagined it'd be worse for one night stands, like a lot of potential "wait what's wrong with you"'s

lol no women are mostly happy you don't have premature issues and can keep things going

Well, if it's a one-night stand, you could always say, "oh my god, this has never happened to me before."

i was so standardboyafraid before i lost my virginity that i wasn't gonna last. the slow realization that first time that i was gonna have a different problem entirely actually made me laugh.

VP, that is horrible! I mean, even if you're not going to have sex with the person again, it's no reason to make them feel weird or bad.

w one-night stands honestly lol no one has ever mentioned it. i mean i haven't had all that many but still. i guess i fake? but i can't be faking very convincingly. then of course there's the question of the lack of evidence. i think they're probably slightly confused but not comfortable broaching the question? ALSO THEY'RE A LITTLE DISTRACTED AMIRITE

For me sex is very much about my mind and feelings + it takes me some time to get used to new situations (not just w/r/t interpersonal stuff, but things like apartments, job, daily routines) so w/ a new person I not only don't come, but if I get my mind on the wrong track, I'll not get it up. Those things on their own would really not be bad and I could still enjoy myself, but I feel pressured to perform and it's been a long time since I've been with someone with whom I felt comfortable discussing the situation. It's a feedback loop sometimes.

There are potential partners out there who can deal with this stuff, right??

To be clear, I'm not purely sexually dysfunctional; it just seems that way b/c that's what the topic is.

lol or drunk and condoms + hasty retreat makes for easy faking it

I guess it's a male privilege thing in not wanting to act like it's a new situation? The ability to be honestly who you are, even with foibles, is probably showing some ability to do what you are able.

aw, I know people can deal with that, Je55e. I luckily (or whatever) don't have other issues. But I kind of feel like it'd give a good cover, as opposed to liking sex but hey, can't do it all with you, person

What would give a good cover?

not being able to get it up, obviously can't get up, then

I was trying to give at least small comfort (aw) to the situation

people can def deal w it je55e; i should elaborate on "invariably develop complexes" cuz it's not as bleak as that really. what generally happens is it's almost a positive thing at first because she'll be all curious and also hopeful that she will Be The One, and then it tends to disappear as an issue except at emotionally low moments, and then during the decline of the relationship when problems are surfacing anyway it comes back as a nagging insecurity/resentment/guilt-over-resentment neither of us can fix. but by then there's lots of stuff neither of us can fix; it doesn't wreck relationships all by itself.

i will take yr suggestions about letting go and living in the moment and being less cerebral under consideration, they had not been presented to me before

Yessss, this is one of the things that makes it kind of difficult to talk to people about, because this is usually their advice and while I'm sure they're right, it's not exactly...helpful?

I think sex is awesome, I love the intimacy, I'm into the sharing part of it...I just don't share my orgasms. I'm totally sex-positive, whatever you need or want to do, I'm an evangelist for vibrators, I've been reading sex scenes and erotica since I was like 12, I know what I like fantasy-wise, all of that. It just isn't what's in play with another person. I've tried unorthodox methods, I've let people try theirs, although I think that particular detour was misguided in retrospect. About the only thing I haven't done is sleep with women, which I have no particular desire to do.

lol no women are mostly happy you don't have premature issues and can keep things going

Now that I think of it, I've heard a few complaints from female friends about guys going on forever without finishing. There was some speculation that it was due to showing off or being concerned and confused about what constituted "too quick," which might be, but it could also be comfort level, SSRIs, or just how they were wired.

i guess i fake? but i can't be faking very convincingly. then of course there's the question of the lack of evidence. i think they're probably slightly confused but not comfortable broaching the question?

I've faked it and "lack of evidence" was a concern, but being quick with a towel and having plenty of lube spread around were how I covered. TBH I don't think I'll be faking anymore.

Reminded of the joke the boss tells in Philadelphia about gays faking orgasms by throwing a cup of hot yogurt on their partners' backs.

I find that men usually take it in stride the first few times and then it's like a competition or a class project, and then if they're at all mean-spirited, it turns into a critique of me, so that's fun.

talking about anorgasmia here as opposed to not being able to get it up but am def familiar w that deflating feedback loop as well, that's just a thing that happens sometimes and usually more than anything else it's the terror of it happening that makes it happen. but it's not really that big a deal. people are usually p gracious about that kind of thing and that can help you calm down and banish fear; if they're not it's rly their problem. xxxxp to myself/je55e

it's always nice for certain things to happen in sex, but in the end, it's always your feelings for the other person and theirs for you that count

I mean, unless it's some short-term or one-night thing, try for whatever thing you gotta do if you really need something to happen

Sometimes it is really hard to sleep afterward though without having gotten off, that's honestly probably the most annoying part for me.

I meant, if you were the guy in question, and having a problem, during the one night stand, you could claim that it was a complete surprise. Not for someone to point fingers at someone else's sexual foibles. What kind of monster do you take me for?

oh, certainly!

did you know there's a detachment/anxiety post-orgasm thing more prominent in men? idk, guys are more likely to just pass the hell out when things go well, but it can also lead to laying awake

VP, still, unless you're young or really inexperienced, who has complete surprises?

Haha I will fall asleep in like 30 seconds after an orgasm, I'm a guy like that.

high five, io

That's actually one thing I really like about going solo, no need to get up, pee, clean anything. I can just afterglow and then unconsciousness.

see maybe you know that subconsciously when with a dude and you're really thinking "guys suuuuuuck"

Sometimes it is really hard to sleep afterward though without having gotten off, that's honestly probably the most annoying part for me.

― purveyor of generations (in orbit), Tuesday, October 23, 2012 12:23 AM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

keep a quiet sex toy in the bathroom, wait for partner to fall asleep

or if he isn't insecure just take it out after?

xp There's probably something to that, you know? Sex is a huge production, takes time away from ilx and reading & drinking wine, makes me sweaty again, I never get off, and then I can't sleep. In rel'ships where we've spent a lot of/too much time together I get really protective of my nights alone for that reason and also just the pleasure of doing things I want on my own schedule.

I am a terrible, selfish, modern single and I want what I want when I want it.

Also STOP UNTUCKING THE SHEETS AND MOVING AROUND, DAMN IT.

you can join me in leading the charge to bring separate beds back out of 50s sitcoms

I'll rep for separate bedrooms any day of the week, frankly.

me too! and i'd always thought i'd be cuddler too.

for now separate blankets do a decent job

omg just died at the sheet untucking

I can't GET OFF over here because I know you're gonna UNTUCK MY SHEETS

Haha, I hate it when sex takes time away from my valuable ilx reading.

In terms of insecurities, the people who are insecure about this stuff are probably the people who should not be insecure about this stuff. Like a lot of things in life.

i have mr. freeze's taste in bedroom temperatures (i am sounding like a real catch on this thread) so cuddling usually works for me. and for whomever i'm cuddling, who would probably otherwise die.

It's untucked over here all the time. I'm so easy going like that.

(but if i'm at someone else's place FUCK THAT STAY OVER THERE.)

I am a cuddler!!! I adore cuddling! And then it's time to back to our separate sides of the bed for sleeping.

xp looool dlh leave some of my life for me, please.

you'll be relieved to hear i am a militant untucker.

it's troublesome when your partner hates not cuddling to sleep and is also a living furnace

Anyone that isn't alienated by my sexual & sleeping habits is probably a saint, and I haven't met them yet.

I'm amazed at guys (or people in general, I suppose, but my experience is w/ myself and other guys) whose bodies react strongly to physical stimulation. I can hardly fathom premature ejaculation or an unwanted erection b/c for me orgasms and erections are not going to happen if my mind isn't on board. My ex-BFs would get hard with just some rubbing, regardless of virtually any adverse circumstances (including, for example, terrible gastroenteritis or crying over a relative's illness). One of them would finish predictably as if he were on a timer no matter what. It seems amazing to have such a responsive body!

xp LOL Sex is a huge production, takes time away from ilx and reading

I have envied men and what I've perceived as the male experience of sex for a very long time for exactly that, Je55e. I don't get those people either.

but yeah, saying "we" in her tweet is kind of asking for it from a varied community. then again, it has to be phrased that way to take it away from the personal

crut otm

a lot of the responses to that tweet are nuts but she's the one who worded it the way she did, it's one thing to not experience pleasure there it's another to act like every single vagina-haver is faking it

xp yeah

i meant to recommend mary roach's BONK to anyone interested in sex research and/or historical sex and/or the ~mystery~surrounding climax. the audio book gets mighty tedious because the woman reading it sounds like terry gross, but the content was interesting enough to entertain me for nearly 14 hours of dull midwestern driving. there are moments when it veers into goofy/news of the weird shit, but the stuff about masters and johnson was good, among a bunch of other things.

i meant to recommend it earlier but did not want to search for this thread
yet here it is, so

maybe she should have used "many among us" instead of we but ehhhh who cares

i can't stand people who assume everyone is just like them; one of the most irritating traits imo

:)

"backlash" and "party leather" are a good post/dn combo.

anyway about that book -- her research is not partic deep or academic, but i think a lot of people who have trouble achieving in the "traditional" (scare quotes intentional) ways will find it gratifying (if not somewhat satisfying, hehehe)

btw the whole book is not focused on anorgasmia -- it's just part
it's mostly a lite historical look at scientific sex research

that's the same lady who did the "i look like lena dunham and bang hot guys" essay, right?

Yes. That's her.

I don't understand why people read her tweet as a universal statement? "Can't we all agree" is generally the lead-in for something outlandish and/or sarcastic, IME.

but she said something that wasn't, to her, outlandish or sarcastic and she spends many words explaining she meant it literally

didn't read as sarcastic at all

let me rephrase, the "can't we all agree" is sarcastic - whatever is said after that may be true for the person.

Milo OTM - I read it as her challopsing.

It's got me thinking about physical vs psychological enjoyment of sex and I hadn't really realized before how overwhelmingly my enjoyment of it is psychological. E.g., I get a TON more pleasure from giving head than getting. My mind wanders when I get a BJ, but giving can keep me engaged for a long time.

'the sexiest body part is the mind'

-- bob marley

marleyproof

i haven't found a better place to put this so i will put it here
i think i found it while searching for sex education materials? i can't remember. anyway, it's relevant to the interests of this thread.

ABSTRACT. Women report anorgasmia and other difficulties achieving orgasm. One approach to alleviating this problem is to teach women about the clitoris. This assumes that women lack information about the clitoris and that knowledge about the clitoris is correlated with orgasm. Using a non-random sample of 833 undergraduate students, our study investigates both assumptions. First, we test the amount of knowledge about the clitoris, the reported sources of this knowledge, and the correlation between citing a source and actual knowledge. Second, we measure the correlation between clitoral knowledge and orgasm in both masturbation and partnered sex. Among a sample of undergraduate students, the most frequently cited sources of clitoral knowledge (school and friends) were associated with the least amount of tested knowledge. The source most likely to correlate with clitoral knowledge (self-exploration) was among the most rarely cited. Despite this, respondents correctly answered, on average, three of the five clitoral knowledge measures. Knowledge correlated significantly with the frequency of women’s orgasm in masturbation but not partnered sex. Our results are discussed in light of gender inequality and a social construction of sexuality, endorsed by both men and women, that privileges men’s sexual pleasure over women’s, such that orgasm for women is pleasing, but ultimately incidental.

http://lisawadedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/wade-kremer-brown-2005-the-incidental-orgasm.pdf

I totally missed you posting that but I'm going to read it all right now.

Actually I came here to say that this TEDtalk (lol? idk) basically peeled my brain open. There are so many things that gave me shocks of recognition and I have some exploration to do I think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sa0RUmGTCYY

...as soon as someone becomes a project, as soon as I have to hold back and say only supportive things, as soon as I perceive that they need something from me, I absolutely cannot feel desire. I can imagine that I do in an alternate reality, but right there with the person I cannot. I just realized this lately on a 2nd or 3rd date w someone I was trying to be attracted to (which might not have happened anyway) but definitely was not going to happen when I started feeling like I had the power to hurt him. I wondered if this was inordinately selfish of me, but I feel a little more aligned with myself from that talk.

i dunno if i wanna watch a tedtalk right now but what you say rings big bells - i think as much as anything what i desire is somebody else's desire, some kind of equality that's v. hard to reach with certain kinds of personal damage?

She does set out trauma as an opposite of desire, so you might find some connections made there, but as you like.

For a long time it has seemed like the only thing that did turn me on was the desire of others, that I could substitute their desire for my own? But that might, it seems obvious in retrospect, be a dead end for personal growth...and be related to why I dissociate from what's happening so much.

I started saying a long time ago that if I was going to have sex I at least wanted to be there for it, and not somewhere else or floating around the ceiling watching it or whatever. Actually achieving that has not really...happened.

Partly because I go a year at a time without meeting anyone I want to date (who wants to date me) at all, so it's an extremely slow process. I say this at about the 11-month mark, which is why I almost put this whole series of posts in the droughts thread.

first 5 minutes of that vid are painfully relevant. want to read her work now.

xp that sense of time being against us does so much to undermine our wiser instincts sometimes i think

"a glimpse of all our futures"

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/20/young-people-japan-stopped-having-sex

A survey in 2011 found that 61% of unmarried men and 49% of women aged 18-34 were not in any kind of romantic relationship, a rise of almost 10% from five years earlier. Another study found that a third of people under 30 had never dated at all. (There are no figures for same-sex relationships.) Although there has long been a pragmatic separation of love and sex in Japan – a country mostly free of religious morals – sex fares no better. A survey earlier this year by the Japan Family Planning Association (JFPA) found that 45% of women aged 16-24 "were not interested in or despised sexual contact". More than a quarter of men felt the same way.

I'm taking notes on the side about my own thoughts on the matter, I feel like a bunch of difft things lately have led up to me making a big jump in understanding some truths today. But in relation to the article about young people in Japan, I think...when you start realizing that nothing except equality is acceptable, it may be the case that everything suddenly becomes like 100x more difficult because everything you do is swimming upstream against the status quo. That amount of work is not always/often? going to be worth whatever the perceived benefits are.

Also just to say it again, human needs w/r/t sex and intimacy are amazingly varied, I grok that more and more. The "new normal" can be...ANYTHING.

People have introduced me lately to this guy Jay Smooth who has inspections of racism on youtube, and my favorite part is the "personal hygiene" approach to not being racist in which he compares it to brushing your teeth--upkeep, something you have to do every day or you lose the benefits of the act. So when you slip up and do or say something kinda racist, you're not doomed, you're not necessarily a bad person or irredeemable from some terrible hell, you just forgot to brush your teeth and you should do that before you talk to anyone else.

carl agatha commented once on what a huge amount of work it is to be in a ltr/marriage in which both ppl are committed to nullifying patriarchy and its effects on them, and I've been trying to fully grasp that idea ever since she said it, and I think I just understood some part of that.

But now we're really into a different thread entirely.

two key quotes that jumped out at me from that lecture:

"In this paradox between love and desire, what seems to be so puzzling is that the very ingredients that nurture love - mutuality, reciprocity, protection, worry, responsibility for the other - are sometimes the very ingredients which stifle desire.
Because desire comes with a host of feelings: jealousy, possessiveness, aggression, power, dominance, naughtiness, mischief. Basically most of us will be turned on at night by the very same things that we will demonstrate against during the day... if everybody was fantasizing on a bed of roses, we wouldn't be having such interesting talks about this. We think love comes with selflessness and in fact, desire comes with a certain amount of selfishness, in the best sense of the word."

"Erotic couples understand that passion waxes and wanes like the moon: it has intermittent eclipses. But what they know is how to resurrect it because they have demystified one big myth: the myth of spontaneity. They understood that whatever is going to just happen in a long-term relationship already has. Committed sex is premeditated sex; it's willful, it's intentional, it's focused and present."

(jay smooth is an occassional poster here btw)

wait really

he's hungry4ass isn't he, i knew it

haha well more of an old poster really. i remember he replied to me here 90s/Lo-Fi Revivalism

Well if he reads this we totally namedropped him and his critique in our stoop talk yesterday.

http://thenewinquiry.com/essays/doing-it-wrong

http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm458734.htm