Stalin - classic or dud

She is definitely a hard line conservative, cold warrior type (also married to Radek Sikorski) and that does filter through in her books but not quite as much as you would expect. She is a decent researcher too.

i'm reading bloodlands which talks a lot about stalin and includes this ukrainian children's song:

Father Stalin, look at this
Collective farming is just bliss
The hut’s in ruins, the barn’s all sagged
All the horses broken nags
And on the hut a hammer and sickle
And in the hut death and famine
No cows left, no pigs at all
Just your picture on the wall
Daddy and mommy are in the kolkhoz
The poor child cries as alone he goes
There’s no bread and there’s no fat
The party’s ended all of that
Seek not the gentle nor the mild
A father’s eaten his own child
The party man he beats and stamps
And sends us to Siberian camps

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2013/mar/21/could-stalin-have-been-stopped

As Costigliola sees it, Roosevelt hoped that, at least during the early postwar years, Great Britain, the US, and the Soviet Union would act together as the policemen of world peace. He never subscribed to the Churchillian and Stalinist notion of dividing the world into areas of great power interest; yet, somewhat illogically, he accepted the fact that wherever American, British, or Soviet armies went during the war, their respective power would prevail. But this would only be temporary, Roosevelt argued. Once the Soviets convinced themselves of the West’s readiness to play a fair game, a peaceful world would become a genuine possibility, and the Soviet Union—or so Costigliola speculates—might well abandon its idée fixe regarding the need for tightly controlled buffer states along its borders.

This matches my own conclusions about Roosevelt's policy -- a kind word to describe his improvisatory thinking -- after finishing the new bio of Harry Hopkins. Post-war speculation will continue producing literature because other than def wanting to extirpate British imperialism from the globe, FDR, well, could not envisage life after WWII. He and Hopkins were so obsessed with winning the war that a life after the war wasn't so much unknown as impossible -- and it was.

i wanna read this bad
http://www.amazon.com/Moscow-1937-Karl-Schl-ouml/dp/0745650767/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1368158107&sr=8-1&keywords=moscow+1937

ooh!

coincidentally I just got my copy of the Court of the Red Tsar back the other day

http://www.npr.org/blogs/parallels/2014/02/20/280131736/sochi-was-once-a-vacation-spot-fit-for-a-dictator

Viktoria leads the way into the billiard room, where the dictator used a special, lead-weighted cue because a damaged arm made it hard for him to feel the weight of a regular stick. Visitors are welcome to try a shot or two using that cue.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/04/h-g-wells-it-seems-me-i-am-more-left-you-mr-stalin

Recently I have been reading Gulag by Anne Applebaum, the scale and evil of his terror campaign is beyond belief.

from a 1943 article by wendell willkie:

Once I was telling him of the Soviet schools and libraries I had seen -- how good they seemed to me. And I added: "But if you continue to educate the Russian people, Mr. Stalin, the first thing you know you'll educate yourself out of a job."

He threw his head back and laughed and laughed. Nothinig 1 said to him, or heard anyone else say to him, through two long evenings, seemed to amuse him as much.

lol

also oh man thanks mordy!

wells interview a deluge of otm from the old bastard honestly, even if all his answers are textbook

In speaking of the impossibility of realising the principles of planned economy while preserving the economic basis of capitalism, I do not in the least desire to belittle the outstanding personal qualities of Roosevelt, his initiative, courage and determination. Undoubtedly Roosevelt stands out as one of the strongest figures among all the captains of the contemporary capitalist world.

But if the circumstances are unfavourable, the most talented captain cannot reach the goal you refer to. Theoretically, of course, the possibility of marching gradually, step by step, under the conditions of capitalism, towards the goal which you call Socialism in the Anglo-Saxon meaning of the word, is not precluded. But what will this “Socialism” be? At best, bridling to some extent the most unbridled of individual representatives of capitalist profit, some increase in the application of the principle of regulation in national economy. That is all very well. But as soon as Roosevelt, or any other captain in the contemporary bourgeois world, proceeds to undertake something serious against the foundation of capitalism, he will inevitably suffer utter defeat.

That is why, objectively, there will be no reorganisation of society.

Nor will there be planned economy. What is planned economy? What are some of its attributes? Planned economy tries to abolish unemployment. Let us suppose it is possible, while preserving the capitalist system, to reduce unemployment to a certain minimum. But surely, no capitalist would ever agree to the complete abolition of unemployment, to the abolition of the reserve army of unemployed, the purpose of which is to bring pressure on the labour market, to ensure a supply of cheap labour. You will never compel a capitalist to incur loss to himself and agree to a lower rate of profit for the sake of satisfying the needs of the people.

meanwhile hg wells is saying this kind of thing

I object to this simplified classification of mankind into poor and rich. Of course there is a category of people which strive only for profit. But are not these people regarded as nuisances in the West just as much as here? ... There are capitalists who only think about profit, about getting rich; but there are also those who are prepared to make sacrifices. Take old Morgan, for example. He only thought about profit; he was a parasite on society, simply, he merely accumulated wealth. But take Rockefeller. He is a brilliant organiser; he has set an example of how to organise the delivery of oil that is worthy of emulation.

the new statesman chooses the above juncture to insert this picture:

http://www.newstatesman.com/sites/default/files/images/2014%2B15wells2.jpg

Of course there is a category of people which strive only for profit. But are not these people regarded as nuisances in the West just as much as here?

no

lol wow @ stalin's grim kicker tho:

Wells: Unfortunately, I have various engagements to fulfil and I can stay in the USSR only for a week. I came to see you and I am very satisfied by our talk. But I intend to discuss with such Soviet writers as I can meet the possibility of their affiliating to the PEN Club. The organisation is still weak, but it has branches in many countries, and what is more important, the speeches of its members are widely reported in the press. It insists upon this, free expression of opinion – even of opposition opinion. I hope to discuss this point with Gorki. I do not know if you are prepared yet for that much freedom...

Stalin: We Bolsheviks call it “self-criticism”. It is widely used in the USSR.

(iirc samokritika is what it was called when you signed the paper saying you'd been a british spy since 1920)

lol mookieproof

But surely, no capitalist would ever agree to the complete abolition of unemployment, to the abolition of the reserve army of unemployed, the purpose of which is to bring pressure on the labour market, to ensure a supply of cheap labour.

gee, i've been shouting this at dishonest tv pols for years

I've just remembered that my Mum, who was 6 when WWII started, told me that whenever Stalin was shown in newsreels in the cinema all the children used to cheer him - they might have cheered Churchill and FDR too (they undoubtedly cheered Hitler in Germany at the time) but I get the impression he was a particular favourite of children.

he looked so jolly

alfred to thread

Good old uncle joe.

http://www.laprogressive.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/stalin-450.jpg

New bio published -- was hoping for early reviews!

reviews are good, but mystified that the author is dismissive/disbelieving of lenin's post-stroke disavowal of joe

assume most people have heard of this little sage, but i hadn't until a year or so ago so http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1907_Tiflis_bank_robbery

Reading Joseph Persico's book on FDR and espionage published in the early '00s there's a good bit about Roosevelt suppressing and actively transferring agents who approached him with anti-Bolshevik material in 1944-1945, so intent was he on keeping Stalin as an ally and keeping him close before Yalta.

assume most people have heard of this little sage, but i hadn't until a year or so ago so http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1907_Tiflis_bank_robbery

lots of good caper stuff in young stalin: stalin climbs out of window dressed as woman, etc

the tiflis bank robbery was insane. was sort of dismayed to learn about the complicity of lenin, even though i didn't think i had illusions about him, but yeah

in terms of one's lieutenants, trotsky can write a mean pamphlet, and even lead an army, but yr still gonna need some money

i still don't understand where trotsky learned about leading armies.

btw this is the bio I mentioned: http://www.amazon.com/Stalin-Volume-Paradoxes-Power-1878-1928/dp/1594203792/ref=pd_cp_b_0

Interesting. I extrapolated a name from that email address, and googled it + jll, and got a former CEO of a major airline.
― truck-patch pixel farmer (my crop froze in the field) (Rock Hardy), Monday, January 30, 2006 7:23 PM (8 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Dude, are you G0rd0n B3thun3, former CEO of C0ntin3ntal A!rl!nes? If so, why are you loitering around here, pestering the working classes?
― truck-patch pixel farmer (my crop froze in the field) (Rock Hardy), Wednesday, February 1, 2006 4:06 PM (8 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_XZFaeUcAAhUv7.jpg

good to know

wish bethune would come back and give us his opinions on Putin

Young Stalin was pretty hot as far as future genocidal autocrats go.

the hair!

was bethune really the former ceo of continental airlines?

Veep creator Armando Iannucci is making a comedy about Stalin

yesssssss

Is this the point where he brings back Chris Langham to play Beria ?:p

lol

The two organs of state control, SMERSH and NKVD, executed 158,000 soldiers for desertion during the war and jailed 135,056 Red Army officers, mostly after the war, because they had become too independent. A further 1.5 million Red Army soldiers captured by the Germans were sent to gulags or Siberian work camps simply because they had been tainted by contact with the West.

I'd never heard that it was because they had become 'tainted by the west' before. Order 270 effectively made being captured as a POW tantamount to desertion so anyone failing to fight to the death could potentially be jailed as collaborators when they had been released. 1.5m seems a high estimate given that there were only about 2.4m who didn't die in the camps and a fair whack of them were redrafted when they had been liberated, iirc, but there was a definite attempt to demonise a lot of POWs.

There was an account of a miraculous escape from some stalag by a group of some very resolute Red Army captives who managed to break out, gather weapons & steal a German plane and fly it back home, a true Great Escape scenario and as soon as they landed on Russian soil they were arrested and sent to the Kolyma gulag, which was effectively a starvation death sentence during wartime. Stalin regarded captured soldiers as "traitorous cowards" and if they weren't starved to death or shot by the Nazis, they often didn't face much better endings post "liberation".

red army blues

Among the best-publicized examples of the NKVD's bravery behind enemy lines were the heroic deeds of its detachment in the Ukrainian Black Sea port of Odessa during the 907-day occupation by German and Romanian forces. The detachment based itself in the catacombs there, a maze of underground tunnels used to excavate sandstone for the construction of the elegant nineteenth-century buildings which still line many of Odessa's streets and boulevards. With over a thousand kilometers of unmapped tunnels as well as numerous entrances and exits, the catacombs made an almost ideal base for partisan warfare....

The multi-volume Odessa file ... [begins] by recording the despatch of [Captain Vladimir Aleksandrovich] Molodtsov's detachment of six NKVD officers to Odessa shortly before it fell to the Germans in October 1941, with orders to establish an underground residency which would organize reconnaissance, sabotage and special operations behind the German lines. In Odessa they were joined by thirteen members of the local NKVD Special Department, commanded by Lieutenant V.A. Kuznetsov. According to the official version of events, the two groups held a Party/Komsomol meeting on the evening of October 15 immediately before going down into the catacombs to set up their base. What actually took place, according to the KGB file, was a raucous dinner party and heavy drinking which ended in a fight between the Moscow and Odessa NKVD detachments. The next day the two groups entered the catacombs still at daggers drawn, with Molodtsov and Kuznetsov each claiming overall command. Over the next nine months Muscovites and Odessans combined operations against the Germans and Romanians with internecine warfare among themselves....

Molodtsov... was captured by the enemy in July 1942 but refused to beg for his life, courageously telling his captors, "We are in our own country and will not ask the enemy for mercy." After Molodtsov's execution, Kuznetsov disarmed his detachment and put them under guard inside the catacombs. All but one, N.F. Abramov, were executed on Kuznetsov's orders on charges of plotting against him. As conditions in the catacombs deteriorated, the Odessans then proceeded to fall out among themselves... with their kerosene almost exhausted, the detachment was forced to live in semidarkness. On August 28 Kuznetsov shot one of his men, Molochny, for the theft of a piece of bread. On September 27 two others, Polschikov and Kovalchuk, were executed for stealing food and "lack of sexual discipline." Fearing that he might be shot next, Abramov killed Kuznetsov a month later....

By this time, following several other deaths at the hands of the enemy, only three NKVD officers remained alive in the catacombs: Abramov, Glushchenko and Litvinov. Abramov and Glushchenko together killed Litvinov... Gluschenko wrote in his diary that Abramov wanted to surrender: "We are beaten. There is no victory to wait for. He told me not to be frightened of committing treason or being shot as he has friends in German intelligence." On February 18, 1943, apparently suffering from hallucinations, Glushchenko wrote, "[Abramov] was bending over, attending to his papers. I took my pistol from my belt and shot him in the back of the head." Over the next few months Glushchenko spent much of his time ... in his wife's Odessa flat. After the liberation of Odessa by the Red Army in April 1945 Glushchenko returned with members of the Ukrainian NKVD to collect equipment and compromising papers from the catacombs, but was fatally wounded when a grenade he picked up exploded in his hands....

In 1963 the KGB was disconcerted to discover that Abramov had not been killed by Glushchenko after all, but had escaped and was living in France. Abramov's supposed widow, Nina Abramova, who had been working in the KGB First Chief Directorate, was quietly transferred to another job.

Been reading that Robert Service Stalin biog. One bit I really enjoyed was the anecdote about him walking outside the Kremlin during a snowstorm and a tramp is begging for money and Josef is unrecognisable due to his winter wear. He obliges and gives the tramp a generous rouble note, then in response the tramp starts waving his fists and accusing him of being a "bourgeoisie bastard eh?" and then Stalin in pre-Terror form is laughing and saying "you see what happens when you give these bastards too much?".

Mikoyan's alternate account to Pravda's story of Stalin braving the frontline (40 miles from the actual hostilities according to him) in '43 to give essential orders and strategies to his Generals.

Allegedly Stalin, as he talked with his commanders, felt an urgent call of nature. Mikoyan speculated that it might have been mortal fear rather than the normal effects of digestion. Stalin anyway needed to go somewhere fast. He asked about the bushes by the roadside, but the generals - whose troops had not long before liberated the zone from German occupation - could not guarantee that landmines had not been left behind. 'At that point,' Mikoyan recorded with memorable precision, 'the Supreme Commander in sight of everyone dropped his trousers and did a shit on the asphalt. This completed his "reconnoitring of the front" and then he went back to Moscow.'

i was denounced for plugging those montefiore books so i'm denouncing all of you for not denouncing xelab for reading robert service

? I like Court of the Red Tsar a LOT. (haven't read young Stalin). xelab not really worth acknowledging ime.