― mark s, Wednesday, 3 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
Recordings: These aren't holding up well at all, for me. The non-vocal "Kondole" is a pretty nice ambient sort of thing. At the end of the vinyl version there was a fantastic track that featured an interview with Brian Jones, with some tripped out electonic backing. The interview sounds steretypically starched shirt, and meanwhile Brian Jones is taking his time and giving very thoughtful, interesting, answers to the questions posed. There are these pauses during which you can hear the tape recording running, and there are other very tiny glitches, to sneak in a trendy word, which add character to the interview. "What is surrealism. . . when you use the word?," asks his inquisitor. Unfortunately, I don't know the name of this track. It also appears on the rare Psychedelic Violence EP, which, sad to say, I own. As far as I know this track has not made it onto CD, which is just ridiculous considering some of the PTV crap that has been rehashed repeatedly in that form.
As far as other tracks, "God Star" is still pretty amusing, and "Arcadia" is okay. "Unclean" is alright, though I think it suited my angry 20's more than it suits my angry 30's. The tracks "Scriabisims" and "Elipse ov Flowers" are both pretty good. The first one has drill-like guitars and that's about all I remember. The second one is another instrumental, a mellow one, which sounds very Velvet Undergroundish, but not offensively so. There is some off xylophone in it. They kind of destroy it at the last minute with a sample of some sort of insane laughter. I suppose that has some significance of which I am ignorant, which would add more "complexity" to the track. "Bliss" is one of my favorite acid house tunes (not that I have many favorites). The samples from the Master Musicians of Jajouka add nice coloring to it and intertwine well with Fred Gianelli's (sp?) psychedelic guitar. Gen's hissing is and whatnot is just this side of tolerable. "Live in Reykjavik" has some good moments. "Live at the Circus" is still impressive to me, though not the sort of thing I reach for more than, say, once a year these days. Some of the lyrics are quite sexually explicit (!) in a way that one person I loaned it to decribed as juvenile. I'm not sure what to think. Some of it is pretty funny. But musically, there's something going on there, at least in some of the tracks, that I haven't heard on any of their other live recordings. This is probably Gen's best vocal delivery on a PTV recording. Naturally, this too has not made it onto CD, as far as I know.
Videos: "8 Transmissions 8" is a good collection, overall. Well, okay "Godstar" and "Good Vibrations" seem kind of weak at this point, but "Unclean" has its moments. However, it is "Catalan" and "Moonchild" which are the high points for me. I think both were shot by Derek Jarman. Catalan has a kind of B movie surrealism to it, but I find it successfyl. Moonchild shows the P-Orridge's living-room, and includes a scence of the two of them nude in a coffin, whilst the camera slowly pans. Again, despite all the sensationalism involved, somehow the effect is very meditative, because there's that whole focus/concentration side of magick, and I think they have genuinely put in some time there. "Terminus" includes an awful segment that goes on and on featuring various not entirely convincing suicide simulations. "Terminus III," the resolution, is my favorite part, though it's hint of some sort of enlightenment is also not entirely convincing. "PTV Black" is a decent live recording from the Infinite Beat period, I think, intercut with other video footage. Particularly notable is a version of "Intoxication." The "We Kiss" video is also kind of nice, black and white as I recall.
Proceed with caution. I don't think P-Orridge is kidding when he says he really isn't that interested in music, and yet he's managed to make some fairly decent examples of it while pursuing other ends. He certainly had a good ear for distinctive sounds, though curiously, to me that got lost after he threw himself into rave more earnestly. (Maybe this is just a reflection of my own preferences.)
― DeRayMi, Monday, 22 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
WOLF=FLOW
And yet, I can hardly belive I like it.
TS: 'sinister' vs conventions of guys with bolts through their cocks(and which is the more frightening?)
― zebedee (zebedee), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 18:10 (twenty years ago) link
(Wait, did I really refer to him as "Gen" in an earlier post on this thread? I hope I was being ironic.)
― Rockist Scientist (Al Andalous), Saturday, 15 November 2003 22:34 (twenty years ago) link
― Nihilist Pop Star (mjt), Saturday, 15 November 2003 22:53 (twenty years ago) link
anyway, yes, i wread wreckers shortly after i posted this actually. well half of it then i had to take it back to the library, and forgot about it for a couple months until i picked it up again and finally finished it. ultimately it was a good read, if a bit colored by the authors obvious bias as a fanboy. i walked away with a lot of sympathy for gen (again, authorial bias, as the rest either came off as ciphers or evil stepmothers who plotted against the little boy lost), who struck me as one of those people who just feel too much, maybe think too much too. even though i still find 90% of their output utterly unlistenable at this point, i respect genesis because (unlike me) he actually managed to cough up some hairball of ART in the public space fueled by this inability to shut up his own brain/heart. of course, like most people who can't shut up (inside or out), he was an atrocious (or non-existant) self-editor and i guess that's why there's so much goddamn TG product out there in the first place.
― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 02:16 (twenty years ago) link
It is possible that the others might not have been presented as fairly because of Genesis manipulating the situation. He has always had a knack for selling himself and his point of view even when it does not actually jibe with reality(like GPO invented Acid House...). I am not sure if I blame Ford for that, or if that is just par for the course when you deal with GPO.
As for TG's music, I enjoy it but a lot of it has to do with the fact that I am listening to the underlying ideas presented by the music as well as what is actually there(I also feel gigantically alienated/angry from/with the world around me, so that might be part of the attraction too). The packaging and presentation are absolutely fantastic. GPO gets most of the attention, but I think the most interesting parts of TG are Carter's electronics and Sleazy's design. GPO sells himself as a personality, and most people connect with that more easily that the more behind the scenes aspect. Carter and Sleazy were the ones who actually made things happen, and I would have preferred that more inches had been devoted to them.
Wreckers is probably my third favorite music book, behind Eric Tamm's Eno Bio, and England's Dreaming by Jon Savage. I have never been much interested in critical flights of fancy, I would rather read Savage over Eshun any day. I think Ford did a solid job of presenting the brass tacks of how TG happened. I was approaching the book for information and as a textbook rather than a piece of critical analysis, so ymmv.
― Nihilist Pop Star (mjt), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:14 (twenty years ago) link
― Nihilist Pop Star (mjt), Monday, 17 November 2003 03:18 (twenty years ago) link
― geeta (geeta), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:01 (twenty years ago) link
― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:03 (twenty years ago) link
The thing to bear in mind with that bio is that it is written by a musician for a musician. If you are approaching it as a casual reader it isn't that great. If you are interested in the technical aspects of how his records were made and what the theory of his creative approach is, it is worth it's weight in gold.
It is not a critical analysis, it is the equivalent of high brow guitar magazine journalism. It isn't great writing, but if you are working in a similiar area it is totally news you can use.
― Nihilist Pop Star (mjt), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:14 (twenty years ago) link
According to the credits, this is not true.
― Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 31 March 2004 13:46 (twenty years ago) link
Gen has some neat ideas, but he reminds me of Leary, always running his mouth in the hope that a few nuggets of gold will drop out.
― hector (hector), Wednesday, 31 March 2004 23:43 (twenty years ago) link
and "industrial handbook" was quite enough of the stunt list stuff
a critical assessment of the music on the 24 hours and other newly released stuff, that would be useful too, since ptv and tg recordings always seemed to be classics (something there justifying the owning of the whole record) or absolute duds
― george gosset (gegoss), Thursday, 1 April 2004 05:38 (twenty years ago) link
― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 1 April 2004 08:29 (twenty years ago) link
― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 19 July 2004 04:51 (nineteen years ago) link
― cs appleby (cs appleby), Monday, 19 July 2004 05:37 (nineteen years ago) link
― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 19 July 2004 05:45 (nineteen years ago) link
― OleM (OleM), Monday, 19 July 2004 13:35 (nineteen years ago) link
― Disco Nihilist (mjt), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 04:15 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 04:47 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 04:55 (nineteen years ago) link
― stirmonster, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 09:27 (nineteen years ago) link
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 09:37 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 14:27 (nineteen years ago) link
carter's 'mondo beat' is good too.
i have no plans to see ptv. every time i sa them back in the day they were nothing short of a total load of old toss.
― stirmonster, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 22:50 (nineteen years ago) link
― Joshua Houk (chascarrillo), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 08:33 (nineteen years ago) link
See all the usual declaimers.
― Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Saturday, 9 October 2004 15:51 (nineteen years ago) link
― Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Saturday, 9 October 2004 16:32 (nineteen years ago) link
― big chaki (chaki), Saturday, 9 October 2004 16:35 (nineteen years ago) link
― Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Saturday, 9 October 2004 18:02 (nineteen years ago) link
That was just a dumb mistake, but I like it.
― Rockist Scientist, Thursday, 14 October 2004 17:25 (nineteen years ago) link
― Loose Translation: Sexy Dancer (sexyDancer), Thursday, 14 October 2004 18:34 (nineteen years ago) link
― Loose Translation: Sexy Dancer (sexyDancer), Thursday, 14 October 2004 18:35 (nineteen years ago) link
― Rockist Scientist, Thursday, 14 October 2004 23:55 (nineteen years ago) link
― Rockist Scientist, Thursday, 14 October 2004 23:56 (nineteen years ago) link
So anyway there's a generic PTV beginning at the start of the CD, with one of those JFK samples. Then you get the actual dedication, followed by "Beltane," which is mostly (surprisingly good) "tribal" sounding drumming, with some synthesizer sputterings.
"Beltane/Your Body/Twisted/Only Human" along with "Voodoo Acid" are the main reasons to want this, so far. Weird though even on "Depraved," this guitar solo is very classic rock, and if Genesis would shut up on this one it would be better. But on those first four songs, there are interesting musical things going on, perhaps entirely irrelevant to Genesis, but even he carries his own weight more than he usually does.
(Oh please, Genesis, no. This part didn't need to be added in.)(Also left off a song I like with some very good cheesy LSD sounds.)
― Rockist Scientist, Friday, 15 October 2004 00:16 (nineteen years ago) link
― Rockist Scientist, Friday, 15 October 2004 00:36 (nineteen years ago) link
― :| (....), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 10:59 (nineteen years ago) link
― does that make you want to touch yourself? (nordicskilla), Thursday, 7 April 2005 16:10 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 7 April 2005 19:20 (nineteen years ago) link
― EisbΓ€r (llamasfur), Thursday, 7 April 2005 19:26 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 7 April 2005 19:28 (nineteen years ago) link
― EisbΓ€r (llamasfur), Thursday, 7 April 2005 19:35 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 7 April 2005 19:45 (nineteen years ago) link
― Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Monday, 10 October 2005 01:58 (eighteen years ago) link
― sleeve (sleeve), Monday, 10 October 2005 02:04 (eighteen years ago) link
― blunt (blunt), Monday, 10 October 2005 02:19 (eighteen years ago) link
-- Alex in NYC (vassife...), April 29th, 2005 12:48 PM.
Search out PTV's 'Roman P.'
― Sasha (sgh), Monday, 10 October 2005 03:39 (eighteen years ago) link
Also Search:
PTV - Dreams Less Sweet, Unclean 12", NY Scum Haters live LP (w/Sleazy and John Gosling), Roman P. EP, and I like some of Infinite Beat. Their 7" on Sordide Sentimentale is super excellent as well.
TG - All four studio LPs, Journey Through A Body LP, Very Friendly LP for the studio stuff. Rafters, Thee Psychick Sacrifice (double LP version), and Mission Of Dead Souls for the live fix (haven't heard those Mute CDs).
Coil - Well, I love it all, but the two Musick To Play In The Dark CDs are ace. Also Moon's Milk and the live discs. After that I'd go early (Scatology, Horse Rotorvator, Gold Is The Metal) and then pick up the Unnatural History CDs. After THAT I might get L.S.D. or the more out there stuff (Glitch, Time Machines, Stolen And Contaminated). The Black Light District album is great too.
Chris/Cosey/CTI/Carter/Tutti - My very favorite is the CTI live LP European Rendezvous, the live record Elemental 7 is also superb. For straight Chris & Cosey I'd do Trance, Techno Primitiv, and the recent live CD Union. The Collectiv One CD has a good Carter solo and two killer 12" records - unfortunately not the one with Annie Lennox though! Heartbeat is good too.
DESTROY:
PTV - That godawful live disc that Sordide Sentimentale put out. All these lame new greatest hits and remixes things. Maybe half of the live series. I don't really like Allegory And Self much either. Love War Riot? Ick.
TG - I feel like even the less interesting live TG is still interesting, so the only destroy I'd mention are the dubious posthumous releases: Grief, Kreeme Horn, and a couple of others on the Dossier label I think. Avoid.
Coil - I refuse to relate the concept of "destroy" to "Coil". However, I can see how The Snow EP would fail to move some of the more stonehearted, and the ANS series is a bit, uh, static. Astral Disaster is a hard sell too.
Chris & Cosey - God I hate that Exotika/Take Five crap. There are numerous bad records that followed it, I'd destroy all the Nettwerk stuff. The music they have been making lately is quite worth checking out though.
That was fun.
― sleeve (sleeve), Monday, 5 December 2005 05:52 (eighteen years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 5 December 2005 16:14 (eighteen years ago) link
― Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Monday, 5 December 2005 16:17 (eighteen years ago) link
― Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Monday, 5 December 2005 16:18 (eighteen years ago) link
― sleeve (sleeve), Monday, 5 December 2005 16:25 (eighteen years ago) link
if you're wondering about how to kill spyware on your system, [url=http://go.winantispyware.com/MzQ0OA==/2/2291//]try this[/url]!
http://go.winantispyware.com/MzQ0OA==/2/2291//
― Piannerionist0, Saturday, 6 May 2006 09:38 (eighteen years ago) link
Psychic TV on tour. Anyone seen them in recent years?
― Reatards Unite, Thursday, 27 September 2007 20:30 (sixteen years ago) link
There are eight million Throbbing Gristle threads. Might as well revive this one because:
1) There are full reissues of the original TG albums due with bonus tracks etc. in the next few weeks.
2) I'm lucky enough to have advance copies. And they look GOOOOOD.
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 4 November 2011 02:47 (twelve years ago) link
already noted here:
Throbbing Gristle: RFI
― ban this sick stunt (anagram), Friday, 4 November 2011 08:46 (twelve years ago) link
Never seen this before: Recording Heathen Earth
― _Rudipherous_, Saturday, 21 July 2012 14:51 (eleven years ago) link
I guess I was never a very good fan.
― _Rudipherous_, Saturday, 21 July 2012 15:33 (eleven years ago) link
Interesting interview with Coum Transmissions member, Foxtrot Echo
― R. Stornoway (Tom D.), Sunday, 16 November 2014 22:50 (nine years ago) link
i was very very tempted to buy the "wreckers of civilisation" book last night, but the 32 dollar price tag scared me off.β jess, Tuesday, 2 April 2002 00:00 (12 years ago)
starting at $123 on amazon
― the late great, Friday, 27 February 2015 05:56 (nine years ago) link
Just spent an excellent 2 hours talking to an OG Coum Transmissions guy. Details to follow, maybe.
― Noodle Vape (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 1 December 2015 22:14 (eight years ago) link
I'm all ears... or eyes whatever.
― Otago Imago (Tom D.), Tuesday, 1 December 2015 22:45 (eight years ago) link
yes please
― sleeve, Tuesday, 1 December 2015 23:27 (eight years ago) link
That's a coincidence. Just came home from seeing Psychic TV tonight, in Oslo.
They ripped.
― Mule, Tuesday, 1 December 2015 23:49 (eight years ago) link
in brief: terrifying The Man was pretty easy in 1970s England, all related parties were sweet cuddly people who continued to be so throughout their careers, Hawkwind fans used to be less tolerant than you'd think they ought to be, Wreckers of Civilization is well worth the read
― Noodle Vape (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 1 December 2015 23:59 (eight years ago) link
Just seen a new edition of Wreckers of Civilisation listed on Amazon for August. Anybody know anything about that?Have been hoping that Cosey's memoir might prompt a new edition.
― Stevolende, Monday, 8 May 2017 00:20 (seven years ago) link
there was supposed to be a repress in nov 2015 that amazon took my money for and eventually refunded. so i am skeptical. but would be awesome if it happened.
― the late great, Monday, 8 May 2017 04:12 (seven years ago) link
Appears to be legit, probably a straight reprint with no new material:https://black-dog-publishing.myshopify.com/products/wreckers-of-civilisation
― heaven parker (anagram), Monday, 8 May 2017 04:39 (seven years ago) link
Shame about the no new material if that's true. I thought there had been so9me significant events since it was originally published, band reforming shortly, sleazy dying, back catalogue being remastered etc.But have regretted not having got it before.
― Stevolende, Monday, 8 May 2017 08:36 (seven years ago) link
Having read Cosey's book, the criticism that Wreckers was overly Gencentric seems valid.
― Punnet of the Grapes (Tom D.), Monday, 8 May 2017 08:40 (seven years ago) link
possibly, but I am still gonna snap this up if it finally becomes available again, thanks for the update.
― HONOR THE FYRE (sleeve), Monday, 8 May 2017 16:05 (seven years ago) link
http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1545/2923/products/throbbing-gristle-20-jazz-funk-greats-cd-back-161222_grande.jpg
― π (am0n), Wednesday, 30 August 2017 17:14 (six years ago) link
Doesn't seem to have appeared does it, Amazon is now saying 26th of october.
― Stevolende, Wednesday, 30 August 2017 18:36 (six years ago) link
sigh
― sleeve, Wednesday, 30 August 2017 18:45 (six years ago) link
i like that when i google this one of the first hits is a listing for it on walmart.com
so Amazon US (for me) says August 31st, Black Dog Publishing website says October
― circa1916, Wednesday, 30 August 2017 18:59 (six years ago) link
yes me too but they haven't charged my card yet
WE WILL SEE
― the late great, Wednesday, 30 August 2017 19:11 (six years ago) link
"arriving monday" β believe it when i see it
― the late great, Wednesday, 30 August 2017 19:12 (six years ago) link
fuck, I might as well try to preorder this again
― sleeve, Wednesday, 30 August 2017 19:12 (six years ago) link
huh
https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/wreckers-of-civilisation-simon-ford/1125792481?ean=9781911164739
― sleeve, Wednesday, 30 August 2017 19:13 (six years ago) link
"Temporarily Out of Stock Online"
― π (am0n), Thursday, 31 August 2017 15:29 (six years ago) link
Sux2bu
Amazon is preparing mine for shipment
Or so they would have me believe
― the late great, Thursday, 31 August 2017 16:13 (six years ago) link
that was from the b&n listing. i just ordered on amazon so π!
― π (am0n), Thursday, 31 August 2017 21:55 (six years ago) link
and i got coseys book from my library
― π (am0n), Thursday, 31 August 2017 21:56 (six years ago) link
πππ
― the late great, Thursday, 31 August 2017 21:56 (six years ago) link
odds of me getting my book - at least 10 to 1 against
― the late great, Thursday, 31 August 2017 21:57 (six years ago) link
at least by monday anyway
― the late great, Thursday, 31 August 2017 22:02 (six years ago) link
Arriving tomorrow by 8 PMNot yet shipped
uh huh
― the late great, Monday, 4 September 2017 04:00 (six years ago) link
Your order contained an item that is no longer scheduled for release. This may be because the item was discontinued or replaced by a newer version.
We canceled this portion of your order and you will not be billed for it.
― sleeve, Friday, 15 September 2017 16:21 (six years ago) link
We Guarantee Disappointment
― heaven parker (anagram), Friday, 15 September 2017 16:26 (six years ago) link
late great, how's that book so far π
― am0n, Monday, 16 October 2017 14:41 (six years ago) link