Magic: The Gathering C/D

phantom = the engine for evolve decks?

yeah playing against gruul is just going to be annoying. can't imagine anyone will ever be happy actually casting zhur-taa as a creature.

yeah but it still feels too tempo-negative to be a high pick

i do like how a lot of the 'weird' commons like that are in there to work with one of the mechanics, like the Armored Transport is a battalion enabler and Wildwood Rebirth lets you rebuy your bloodrush cards mid-combat etc etc

this seems like a very synergy-heavy set is what i'm saying i guess

what % of dimir wins do you think will be mills?

Phantom seems kinda crap outside of Simic. The problem with the Phantom though is that Simic seems slow as it is and should have a lot of mana sinks later on. Of course I can't really say without playing with the cards.

I'm not really sure what the big Limited commons will be - every card I've seen that looks awesome in Limited so far as been Uncommon. Drakewing Krasis, Kingpin's Pet, Shambleshark, Wojek Halberdiers, and Deathcult Rouge all seem like first pickables that fit within their guild well. Lots of good common removal too but nothing on the level of Stab Wound. Anyway I'm definitely liking Simic here, definitely the most interesting. Dimir mill seems like a lot of fun too. The 1UB counterspell/mill 2 is kind of a shock, they don't tend to do hard counters with just a single blue (outside of Fall of the Gavel and Dromar's Charm)

like 15-20%? i dunno, its one of those things i can't really evaluate from the card list, but i didn't see any equivalent to Vedalken Entrancer from the old dimir limited decks, a repeatable miller at common that doesn't require any other resources

I'm also noticing a lot of quality creature enchantments here

one thing that stood out to me just now is that 4 of the 5 guild mechanics give extra value to small evasive creatures, so i'd expect cards like metropolis sprite and spire tracer to be more desirable than they would be in most limited formats

will gruul suffer from boros cutting the red bloodrush?

any decent combat trick + boros charm...

Seems like there's a lot of potential for land destruction in this set.

nope

well if it's anything like RTR, I'll be playing a lot of 3-color decks. in which case Boros/Gruul looks pretty solid.

yeah playing against gruul is just going to be annoying. can't imagine anyone will ever be happy actually casting zhur-taa as a creature.

if you're low on creatures you will. it seems like Gruul will be a lot of attack -> use bloodrush if necessary -> if not, play bloodrush creature

land destruction was a fringe strategy back when they still printed Stone Rain, now they barely print any LD at 4 mana let alone 3

the ramp/fixing on frenzied tilling might make it fringe playable in a very specific limited deck though

they have been very explicit about not making land destruction ever viable cause they think it makes people hate the game

I think they're right on that count. Still, I'm surprised they haven't printed anything to punish greedy mana bases (like Blood Moon, or at least Tec Edge) since the mana fixing in Standard is as good as its ever been.

yeah that along w/ scaling back counterspells is all part of the same trajectory where they're trying to make sure the majority games play out on the board rather than being about raw resource advantage/denial. which i think is generally a good thing. blood moon/tec edge effects go against this too so i wouldn't expect anything that harsh anymore

people also like playing multicolor in general + increases the number of card interactions possible

do you guys think that the fixing will be there for strong 4-5 color limited decks come dragon's maze?

i think 3 will become the default with 4 and 5 very doable in base-green decks

I am way too excited about the possibilities, the last time I drafted multisets was tempest

im really curious whether they're going to try to squeeze in a full 10-cycle of dual lands in dragon's maze (probably at uncommon)

there were a set of 10 richard wright land arts that showed up during the RTR art previews that haven't been used on anything, nor have they been used as promotional art or anything yet, and they looked really fancy and can't have just been commissioned to sit around unused.

blood moon/tec edge effects go against this too so i wouldn't expect anything that harsh anymore

I can understand Blood Moon being a little harsh but Tec Edge seems fair to me. Cards like Geist or Huntsmaster are overpowered because it's supposed to be that only certain decks can play them. I don't think Magic should be at a point where basic lands feel underpowered.

tec edge may seem fair on the surface but if you look at its usage it pretty much just gave UW control decks another axis on which to punish people and keep their mana leaks live. no one else really played it much

i remember a lot of decks playing that card! at least, in my area. i'd say if it was printed how it would be used in a different way.

or there's Price of Progress, a card I always loved, but again maybe too cruel for those running almost all nonbasics :)

what are you guys going for the prerelease?

gruul

price of progress in standard/modern right now would be hilarious, it'd be like 10-14 damage for 2 mana. i think a version that's 1 per instead of 2 would be printable and playable but i don't really think its something needed with mono-red already performing well

i think spreading seas is my favorite nonbasic hate card in terms of playabilty vs effect on the game. never dead and doesn't stifle mana development but can punish greedy manabases enough % of the time plus shut down utility lands

a 2-mana sorcery that's the ghost quarter effect plus a cantrip would be interesting too

oh yeah spreading seas would be great, but I would much rather it be something in red or green. I like the Ghost Quarter idea. I love the effect but I hate it as a land that you have to sacrifice.

for the prerelease I'm definitely going Simic, seems like the most fun

okay I went for boros

love the boros rares

what do you guys think of one thousand lashes?

pillory of the sleepless was one of the best removals in old rav block. lashes is the Arrest to pillory's Pacifism, so yeah i expect it'll be quite good.

ended up in gruul after all cause my preferences were all sold out

1000 Lashes feels first-pick worthy. the "no activated abilities" part is maybe not worth the extra mana but let me say I definitely am glad to have Arrest over Pacifism in RTR much of the time. also Orzhov feels like it'll win a lot of games by just pinging an opponent to death - that one life a turn can make a big difference if you're abusing Extort since it pings further and can extend the game since you're gaining life too.

anyone wants to playtest later tonight? I found the cockatrice gatecrash update

ooh, i missed that post. i've been playtesting on cockatrice like all day. really enjoying the set.

mostly draft-relevant impressions:

- i think gatecrash draft will be similar to RTR in that the "slow decks", especially in non-traditional slow-deck colors (boros, simic, even gruul) will go underdrafted at first. i expect a lot of bomby substances to get passed as drafters feverishly chase tempo. meanwhile, there are lots of great stally cards in lots of colors. both red and white have great defensive removal spells for 1 mana.

- on the topic of fast decks being less good than they initially seem: bloodrush is worse than i thought it would be. i rarely saw it making a difference. it's great as late-game burn, but wins you creature combats much less often than you'd think. usually you're much happier just playing the creature.

- fast decks can work, though. one card i anticipate being underdrafted is madcap skills. pick this up always!!! it's essentially the key to any red-based aggro deck, as it's basically an "opponent must have removal" card. i would happily run a deck with 6 1-drops and 3 madcap skills. also combos nicely with armored transport (a nice card on its own) and that gruul activate-first-strike bear. knowing this brutal card is out there really makes me long for cheap bounce in blue.

- i didn't play (against or with) a good dimir deck all day. cipher is really bad, except for hands of binding.

- frilled oculus is basically the frostburn weird of gatecrash. the format comes off as rather fast, so i think there are gonna be lots of slow decks out there for the picking. frilled oculus is that slow-deck enabler.

- the rares are bomby, as usual. even that dubious looking orzhov recursion spell can be quite powerful. high priest of penance, too. i overlooked it at first just thinking it was basically deathtouch+. turns out it's deathtouch+++, as being removal-proof helps a LOT.

- the guildmages were better in RTR.

- didn't see 1000 lashes anywhere, but i agree that it looks first-pick worthy. a very key orzhov card. orzhov's #1 wincon is the slow ping, unless you get some solid over-the-top type dudes like alms beast. even then, go for the ping. i don't think there's any possible way to make a remotely fast orzhov deck. for orzhov, slow = good and i can't conceive of any alternative. i would say it's even slower than golgari, which is saying something.

- for the prerelease (at my place there's no prereg, just a mad rush to get there early) i'm almost certainly going to shoot for boros. the creatures are scariest, the removal is best, it's got the best synergy with neighbouring guilds, and can excel at both the fast naya strategy or the slow borzhov strategy.

today was quite a nice "unofficial prerelease" day for me. the cherry on top was the deck i just drafted. take a gander at this monstrosity. i'm personally quite partial to the bonkers stuff i had to side out. i was almost certainly the only simic drafter at the table. master biomancer got passed to me something like p2p7. O_O

Creatures
2 Cloudfin Raptor
1 Zameck Guildmage
1 Experiment One
2 Frilled Oculus
2 Greenside Watcher
1 Drakewing Krasis
1 Elusive Krasis
1 Master Biomancer
1 Ruination Wurm
1 Gruul Ragebeast
1 Skarrg Goliath

Spells
1 Rapid Hybridization
2 Ground Assault
1 Hands of Binding
1 Signal the Clans

Ramp
2 Gruul Keyrune
2 Verdant Haven

Lands
4 Mountain
4 Island
6 Forest
3 Simic Guildgate

SB: 1 Dimir Keyrune
SB: 1 Diluvian Primordial
SB: 1 Gateway Shade
SB: 2 Incursion Specialist
SB: 2 Ruination Wurm
SB: 2 Sage's Row Denizen
SB: 1 Way of the Thief
SB: 1 Nimbus Swimmer
SB: 1 Leyline Phantom
SB: 1 Homing Lightning
SB: 1 Ivy Lane Denizen
SB: 1 Cloudfin Raptor
SB: 1 Pit Fight

oh yeah - if you guys wanna get your cockatrice game on pre-prerelease, you can make a sealed pool (with the option of guildpacks) here, draft here (until CCG gets gatecrash online, although i honestly like this new site more than CCG), and get the XML file for cockatrice here. all you have to do with the xml file is rename it cards.xml and replace the version in your cockatrice folder with it. it contains all the standard cards including gatecrash.

have fun!

also, just read the earlier posts - that's too bad about land destruction. i always suspected wizards was trying to move away from it; never knew it was an official position. i would love to see a "disruptor" deck return. fond memories of playing monoblack decks in that microprose shandalar game and just sinkholing/strip mining the computer decks into oblivion.

p.s. i mistyped the link for that XML file in the post above. here is the proper link: uploaded.net/file/j7o6fms0

it'll be on oracle in like a day or two but maybe you guys are eager beavers like me

thanks for the tips up there, awesome post

i suspect/hope dimir is going to be like izzet in RTR in that it's not actually bad but it takes a month for people to figure out how to win with it

if you have time to play later tonight, pm me fennel!

I definitely think you're right about Madcap Skills - the one drops don't look real powerful but absent any bounce whatsoever (there's the 6-drop uncommon I guess) these kind of cards will go unchecked. Way of the Thief also looks very good, as does Gift of the Orzhova. Hell Gift looks almost as swingy as Armadillo Cloak which was one of the great all-time Limited commons. Plus there are some really good uncommon creature enchantments. Maybe worth it to pack some enchantment destruction??

I'm thinking the -5/-0 enchantment w/ bounce (Agoraphobia) is also going to be good - repeatable pseudo-removal that also happens to enable Evolve (if you dare to play it on your own dude!)

that's an interesting use for it, I wonder how often it'll come up

do you guys think that bloodrush suffers from the amount of instant removal in the set? feel like I'm always gonna be worried about 2 for 1s

Oh wow, wasn't thinking about the interaction with Agoraphobia on an Evolve guy. Good catch, frog.

Set looks fun though feels like there's surprising few cards aimed at Constructed for a big set. One that caught my eye is Boros Reckoner - seems efficient enough, though I'm not sure how relevant the two abilities will be.

the 1-drops in this set look better than the ones in RTR i think

if i'm bloodrushing i'm mostly worried about Smite, that's a super efficient 2-for-1 for my opponent. but really that balance between using your pump aggressively vs avoiding getting blown out has always existed and it just takes some practice to know what to do in each situation

yeah but easier to fall into that trap when you have 9 combat tricks in your deck

The nice thing about Bloodrush is that unlike normal combat tricks, if you fear removal, you can just play the guy. In an aggressive deck, the kind that will take advantage of Bloodrush, there's usually several early turns where your opponent will tap out to stabilize. And speaking of Bloodrush, you guys think Slaughterhorn is good enough for constructed?

I doubt it but Ghor-Clan Rampager definitely does

i will be playing 4 ghor-clan rampager in standard, i'm like 90% sure