UTOPIA: C4's dark drama featuring torture, conspiracies and a comic book

just watched e2. some of the analysis upthread is wild. this tv show is not going to be complex. the whole "where is jessica hyde" thing is enough for me to be 100 per cent positive she will be a "good" character throughout.

So why would she be dropping the pretence so easily in front of him? This arc is much more easily explained by her testing his mettle and feeling that he can deal with adapting to the brutality of his new reality.

exactly right. the next scene was becky being told she did the right thing by tying up the family, completely hammered home as a way of showing she's adapting where her pal isn't.

this show is really silly and just weighed down with cliché after cliché, it reminds me of Killer Net, but has the same pulpy appeal. anyone recall that show?

YOU FLAMED ME!

the whole "where is jessica hyde" thing is enough for me to be 100 per cent positive she will be a "good" character throughout

Think it's more likely that both sides will turn out to be the bad guys with the comic book nerds in the middle of it. But yeah it's not exactly complex, enjoyable enough though although I thought the second episode really suffered from jettisoning a lot of the humour in the first ep.

btw jessica hyde is hot

would go on crime spree with

"She can throttle my hobo any day" etc etc.

Am I missing something about vaccines? This whole "I-I-I-I, uh, ne-need a sample of the vaccine" stuff -- you've just bought a shitton of it, pop to Boots.

all a bit one note this week.

Select cuts from the soundtrack: http://cristobaltapiadeveer.bandcamp.com/album/utopia-coming-soon

I might buy that. Best soundtrack on TV

Not that there's a lot of competition

Enjoying the Not Jamie stuff the most, although "such a shame to see her raped... brutally... later this week..." was pretty grim.

As good as outright confirmation Becky is an agent - her scene with Grant where she tends to his ankle is pretty much exactly the same as when Jessica gets him drunk then plays mother to him, plus she stumble "I need the manuscript/we need the manuscript".

So, Steven Rea and the Hitman are on the same side, but are Jessica and the Hitman? After the Karvell was a Nazi revelation, there's something odd about the says "how close are we to Utopia?" to Grant that makes me think she WANTS the eugenics experiment brought forward.

Weirdest though is when the Hitman doesn't shoot Jessica because he appears to think she's not her. That would tie into the triple agent theory?

Who's the guy with the gun they meet in the church that the MI5 woman shoots? He's at the house before they have a chance for the phone call to alert where they are, so has Jessica sent him there (since she's the only{?} other person who knows where they are)?

enjoyable crap is the kindest way to describe this show.

Guy in the church who Geraldine James shoots is another MI5 agent. As soon as the call was intercepted they sent their man in, hence the lone wolf MI5 agent Geraldine James telling them to get out.

They don't have time to send a man in, surely? Jessica (and the incident with the family) teaches them they have to be ready to move in a minute or so, and Geraldine James tells them to leave straight away. Let's be generous and say they leave within 10 minutes - MI5 have someone close enough that can get to a remote house and hide in that time? Not very likely.

(Although I concede it could just be an overused tv trope written badly)

Weirdest though is when the Hitman doesn't shoot Jessica because he appears to think she's not her

I've been assuming that Becky is actually Jessica Hyde and the other woman we've been seeing is some kind of creepy farmed impostor.

I agree that this is mostly enjoyable crap although the piling on of sociopathic bleakness on top of sociopathic bleakness and shadowy conspiracy on top of shadowy conspiracy means that when the stakes are raised you don't really feel it. Even when Kill List Guy went into the school there was a feeling of "oh he's just killed more people, onto the next scene" and that was a fucking school massacre.

The leads don't help. Only the Jamie guy really gives a sense of being way over his head. Becky and Wilson and Not Curtis mostly come across as mildly inconvenienced by the fact that their lives are potentially in ruins and they're on the run from a shadowy organisation that wants to kill them.

That's what makes me think they're all possibly double agents. I kind of don't want to think that it's all just bad writing and acting just yet.

Watched eps 2 and 3 earlier in the afternoon on the sofa hungover. Best way to watch; good, foolish fun. I really like this type of conspiracy mystery nonsense. Reminds me of House Of Leaves somehow. And feels very much like Chris Morris's Jam on occasion. I guess that's the soundtrack someone pointed to above. I like the direction, the bright vivid colours. I bet it trails of and annoys me in the end when all the loose ends are tied up though.

I think he didn't shoot her because he's suddenly cold-hitman-starts-to-question and also looking for answers about his past. Jessica is a link to the past (and quasi-sister if he feels himself "created" by her father) and so even though she says she doesn't remember him, he decides not to kill her.

Asking where she is as he leaves I read as him saying "I'm just going to say you weren't here and I'm still looking for you" xp

May not happen but there are certainly signals that Jessica and Arby might both be products of the same program.

genuinely think Alice is one of their creepy little brainwashed kids.

I think we're supposed to doubt every character. It seemed to start to unravel a little tonight - I didn't get where the race thing came into their conclusions about the vaccine. Massive leap there that I missed.

How many episodes of this are there btw?

There was a bit in the previous episode where it was revealed that the Prof who wrote the comic was a massive Nazi and was interested in eugenics, hence the race thing this week.

I feel like they're yanking my chain by making the show so pretty but full of torture and murder

six episodes is it?

apparently i am totally desensitized to (fictional) murder, torture can fuck off but fortunately they haven't returned to the giddy heights of the first episode.

the lethal vaccine + food chain reveal was implausibly speedy but i'm sure there's a switcheroo or two coming. yeah this isn't the most tightly plotted or original story but it looks and sounds amazing.

I searched the hashtag on Twitter last night and it was great to see so many people, mostly young, getting their minds blown by this. I've seen enough paranoid thrillers not to be startled when someone says "You have no idea what these people are capable of" but it seems to be striking a huge chord with teenagers. The conspiracy's outlandishly huge and too many scenes rely on guns pointed at heads but, like ledge says, it looks and sounds brilliant and I like the dearth of big names in the cast. The woman who plays Jessica Hyde is apparently big in Irish theatre but hasn't done much TV so I see her as her character rather than thinking, oh, her again. And the character of Arby is fascinating - a ruthless killer slowly regressing to a damaged child. I miss the humour of the first episode though.

i missed the first episode (and the 4seven repeat) and home network isn't up to 4od. guess i have to wait for them to repeat the entire thing.

Particularly liked the "RB...'Raisin Boy'" exchange last night, produced a very hollow chuckle from this viewer.

best chuckle last night was the scientist complaining that the press ruined his life by telling the world that he like prostitutes and cocaine : 'i mean it was true, i do like prostitutes and cocaine, but they didn't have to tell everyone'

About to watch ep 4 but as a side note to gyac's observation about Alice:

I just assumed Alice was the kid at school who might talk to random people that turn up, but the way her mum behaved in the first two eps was just weird. In ep 2, when Danny breaks in and spends the night in Alice's room he gets disturbed and in the morning because Alice's mum shouts that it's time to get ready and leave. Danny then just leaves through the door and up the corridor that she's apparently in with no alarm, no shouts and no checking he's not being seen. Then in ep 3, when Alice is being told by the police they know about Danny and Arby turns up etc, her mum is calm as you like throughout. She's just found out a kid that cold-bloodedly murdered a school of other children was skulking about in her house the other night. Her reaction is just "Pff. No biggie. Where's the manuscript?"

Is it just me that thinks that's a bit odd? (Rhetorical, I know, as the answer is obviously yes)

I still think there's a reveal to come where Jessica/Not Jessica is shown to share the Nazi opinions of Karvell (whether he's her father or not). The scene where she gets Danny drunk has her (imo) wanting the Utopia to come after the virus is released.

The series is definitely at its worst when moving chunks of plot around. Otherwise, still fun.

Biggest plot hole this week (besides the food chain revelation): Why didn't the Network tail civil servant guy to make sure he didn't go near the medical lab?

Speculation: Did Jessica pass something on to Ian when she kissed him?

Why does a sterilisation contagion need to be hereditary? Other than that, great episode.

This is still holding together imo (to my surprise). Arby/RB/Piotr's character was so good this week. Brother-sister revelation not really a surprise, nor that Janus is a Watchmen-like plot to save humanity by hurting it (or maybe Letts was lying/doesn't know the truth?).

Revelations to come: If Janus affects 95% of people, which 5% are not affected? We still don't know what Jessica's motivation is. Also unclear what Dugdale will do - did he call the police because he thinks he has negotiated peace with the Network and his wife, or because he knew he was being watched and needed to allay suspicions? As for Mr. Rabbit's identity, I'd guess he's either Carville (and still alive?) or he doesn't exist.

Plot-holes or not-holes: Did Letts say that Deal's was a test to see whether they could introduce hereditary changes, and the change they want to introduce now is sterility? [xp - started writing this an hour ago] How did the gang get Milner's address?

why would the doctor guy be all "oh i need to be rich, being old in the future will be hell" when he is like easily 50, at least, and so there'd be plenty of young people around. does it even make sense that with no babies nobody would bother to care for the old? surely the reverse is true?

Like initially at least it's hard to see how he'd be affected.

Heh, good catch. The way around it might have been to have him say "The world is going to go through a massive upheaval and I need to stockpile cash to make sure I'm buffered from the chaos".

I just think he's too old to have those concerns. What would practically be different that would mean the elderly would be left to die while there were still as many adults as always (giving him a 25 year life expectancy and that's generous)

Surely efforts to prolong lifespan would be concentrated more in that world, while viable.

Can't believe I'm wasting mindspace on this.

No, I agree with you completely. I was just thinking that in the immediate term, people are going to notice that everyone's become sterile and that will have unpredictable effects on society. Could drive everyone a bit mad for a while.

Children of Men iirc

That was my reaction to the plan too. Janus dude, haven't you seen Children of Men? It doesn't work out well.

lesser of two evils though. arguably.

re: sterility and heritability, maybe in the 5% who can conceive the condition is present but dormant, so the following generations are also 95% sterile.

although really there would be little point in trying to engineer that, the problem is overpopulation right now. once you've reduced the population by 95% in one generation that's the problem solved, whether or not it grows to dangerous levels in another 2000 years is not a major concern.

do you all think that rea's character was actually honest about what was going on?

they could pull another twist i suppose, but rea's idea is more interesting than the standard eugenics stuff they thought was going on before. also rea thought, correctly, he'd been given up so he had no reason to bluff.

I didn't get the bit abt the stones. Did JH dream/flashback to getting one out of the guy's stomach too?

I don't know, it's beginning to collapse under the weight of Wouldn't It Be Cool If-isms. Yes, we're back at the TRUST NO-ONE shitstorm I predicted in the beginning but for me it went over the top when it turned out that the doctor that Dugdale went to is also the one who is selling the Deal's vaccine to Becky - so if he was already on the other side of the conspiracy, or at least knows what is going on, why did he even bother to test the sample that Dugdale brings him if his intention was always to run like fuck as soon as Dugdale's back was turned?

Although that scene with him does exactly explain his motivation that Ronan ponders above. He says there that he wants to be rich, really rich because it'll be his way of seeing out the rest of his life in whatever the world looks like if 'they' succeed. (In other words, pretty much exactly the line that seandalai was looking for.)

I think Dugdale thinks turning them and the vaccine will give him the ability to keep the promise he and his wife made to Anya, that new evidence will set her free. I'm guessing they were bluffing when they went to see her, just in order to see whether she would agree with the adoption/surrogate plan. My favourite bit of the episode was how quickly he put back the vaccine when he heard it sterilised people.

fwiw I think James Fox will be revealed as Mr Rabbit in the last episode. And possibly Carville.

fwiw I think James Fox will be revealed as Mr Rabbit in the last episode. And possibly Carville.

Feels a bit too obvious, but yeah it could happen. Not sure if Mr. Rabbit == Carville works then - why would they need to find the manuscript?

do you all think that rea's character was actually honest about what was going on?

Had the same thought - he (and other downstream characters like Donaldson) might not even know the extent of the plan.

I'm not sold on the idea of Mr Rabbit == Carville myself, but it feels like something the writer might throw in as a DYS. Also the idea of Mr Rabbit as a dissociative personality which allows him to carry out experiments on his son (and maybe daughter) may well be too tempting to him. As to why he would then want the manuscript, I'm guessing potentially his time in the asylum showed him the error of his ways and he wants to destroy it - but he needs to be on the inside to get it and the trial is already too far underway for him to stop it. I would call that complete bullshit but I can see it on screen for sure.

James Fox has only ever been credited as The Assistant btw, which is surely the biggest clue that he's definitely supposed to be Mr Rabbit.

I'm not gonna check this out though cause the original series was wildly overrated and this is apparently worse

Home Movie is great.

As for the show, I will refrain from being 'that guy' who dips into a thread and shits all over the topic of discussion.

Also anyone who likes Dennis Kelly’s work should be watching The Third Day, which is being dribbled out an episode a week and features gorgeous visuals and a Cristobal Tapia de Veer score like Utopia.

I already feel Gillian Flynn's an overrated hack then this retread of a better show will not persuade me otherwise.

I loved Gone Girl - the movie, anyway - but yeah everything else she's touched not so hot.

The reboot has brought some fans of the original out of the woodwork, and one scanned the rare The Utopia Experiments graphic novel🕸 produced for the original in its entirety.