Magic: The Gathering C/D

i've played garruk relentless in a lot of decks both in this format and the last one and he's always kind of sucked. i don't really understand it since he's got everything you want on a planeswalker

azorius charm is a 4-of in both the control decks and the tempo decks, and i'm expecting the latter (UWR specifically) to be the go-to deck for a lot of PT level players.

I didnt know extort triggered off Ciphered copies of spells. So the 1/2 bat is actually quite good in Dimir.

the 1/2 bat is quite good in any black deck! i really like him in dimir though, cuz he also serves as a good man to evade through cipher spells if you're lacking a good rogue.

it's good that that card and the Syndic are both good in the other guild too b/c when Orzhov totally loads up on cheap extort guys it really, really blows (for the opponent)

pitchfork is dumb (#34985859340293849494 in a series.)

^^ misplaced post all-star

kill screen falls under the "pitchfork is dumb" umbrella right? cuz among their all-star lineup of steaming turds they put out this questionable magic the gathering piece

http://killscreendaily.com/articles/its-your-move/

Boros Reckoner up to 25, holy shit

I played my Jund deck for the first time at my LGS last night and ended up going 2-2. Saw lots of variants on Boros decks. Boros Reckoner wasn't a very big deal for me, but Boros Charm was a real pain. Also, and I got vexed by Vexing Devils. I'm finding that I need more answers to fast red-heavy decks with lots of burn.

The biggest challenge I had was with my mana base. For starters, I need to be more willing to mulligan. But I've decided that I'm also running too many Rootbound Crags and Woodland Cemeteries, when I'm trying to play cards like Arbor Elf and Flinthoof Boar who need actual Forests and Mountains. So I pared those back in exchange for another Blood Crypt and more basics.

Here's the updated deck:
2 Deathrite Shaman
3 Arbor Elf
2 Experiment One
3 Flinthoof Boar
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Dreg Mangler
2 Ghor-Clan Rampager
2 Deadbridge Goliath
2 Desecration Demon
1 Wrecking Ogre

2 Vraska The Unseen
1 Domri Rade

2 Searing Spear
4 Dreadbore
3 Rancor

4 Overgrown Tomb
2 Woodland Cemetary
4 Blood Crypt
2 Rootbound Crag
2 Stomping Ground
7 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Swamp

Sideboard:
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Ultimate Price
1 Rancor
2 Golgari Charm
1 Gruul Charm
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Tragic Slip
2 Pit Fight
2 Ulvenwald Tracker
2 Skullcrack
1 Arbor Elf

Here's a few changes I'm considering:
Sideboard Deathrite Shaman and replace with 2 more Experiment Ones.
Sideboard a couple Dreadbore for Tragic Slip and Abrupt Decay.
Scavenge was a non-factor and Desecration Demon was surprisingly strong, so I'm considering dropping Deadbridge Goliath completely and going 4-of with the Demon.
I'll eventually add more Stomping Grounds if I can get a couple more copies.

I'd love to get some constructive feedback on this. What are your thoughts? I'm open to making changes although I'm a bit restricted in terms of money, so Thundermaw Hellkite will have to stay out.

you know, Corpsejack Menace might be pretty neat in that deck

Corpsejack Menace was in my G/B version of this deck, but then I dropped it. When Corpsejack Menace enters the battlefield does it put 2 counters on Experiment One? I think the answer's yes. Also, does it double up counters on the Geist? Not so sure about this one...

I'm still on the fence about Flinthoof Boar. It has nice versatility, but the need for a Mountain causes a lot of awkwardness. I pretty much always prefer seeing Geist or Dreg Mangler over this. Is there something better that could go in this slot, preferably something aggressive? What about Rakdos Cackler?

i think it does put double counters on Geist!

yeah corpsejack will double evolve counters including the ones it creates by coming into play. it will also double strangleroot's undying counters.

you aren't playing enough mountains for boar to be good. cut it for some other 2-drop (lotleth troll? gyre sage? not sure what)

wow. just played a match (Orzhov vs Orzhov) where I needed to hit 5 lands in a row to lose while my opponent would need 5 spells in a row. and yet....

orz v orz games are miserable

nooo shit. we both had 4 extort dudes out one game. but I won that one because one of mine was Crypt Ghast :)

lived the dream and went undefeated w/ Dimir. played vs. Boros twice and Boros/Gruul once so lots of real fast paced decks. basically - the draft went pretty well, no real bombs but I think Dimir was pretty open. to survive early - lots of removal. I got Killing Glare and Dimir Charm for starters, but the bulk of it was Devour Flesh + Death's Approach. I got 3 of each - was okay with just Devouring whatever their first creature played was, because that powers up Death's Approach. later in the game you just abuse Cipher. Call of the Nightwing was just a house in this deck, as was Last Thoughts. Only got one Hands of Binding though - took a Dinrova Horror over a second one which is IMO one of the best uncommons in the set so no regrets there. as a whole I'd say I had to get a lot of quality uncommons to make it work - Glare, Charm, Guildmage (which kinda sucked but did what I needed him to), a Keyrune (awesome with cipher), the Horror, Call of the Nightwing, and Wight of Precinct Six (amazing in this deck). only rare was the 2/3 Specter who I never played anyway. the 1/2 Bat, as mentioned above, is amazing in this deck. really all I did was punish anyone who didn't have a real creature-heavy draw and win in the long run, drew that Call nearly every game so that really helped. lots of fun to play too. I think if I open a p1p1 Dinrova Horror I'm goin for it again.

btw to everyone who says that Dimir is really bad because other colors take the cards you want - I don't know if that's really true.

i don't think they know what cards dimir wants if they're saying that

pulled a foil aurelia, boros reckoner and godless shrine. passed stomping grounds, cause it was in the aurelia pack.

deck ended up being pretty eh despite the first 6 cards. went 2-2 and the deck w/ the wojeks etc won.

aurelia
reckoner
spark trooper
boros charm
holy mantle
truefire paladin
boros keyrune
2 bomber corps
3 massive raid
skynight
syndic
pit fight
towering thunderfist
scorchwalker
nav squad commandos
angelic edict
firefist striker
urbis protector
knight watch
martial glory

def didn't want to run 3 massive raids but the only other cards I had beyond this were furious resistance, debtor's pulpit and shielded passage.

i don't think they know what cards dimir wants if they're saying that

i'd hear this a lot around the time of release. i dunno if people still believe it but yeah there are a lot of cards in this set that only Dimir is going to want. the whole mill strategy = suck argument kinda misses the point which is that milling makes your Death's Approaches turn into Swords to Plowshares and your Wights huge (if you get them - then again that's an uncommon that no other deck should want). the Ciphermill card is the only "pure milling" common if I recall correctly and it's there because it's stupid in multiples.

iatee - what did you lose to? deck seems decent but kinda top-heavy.

I lost to a good boros deck that wasn't #1 but had the elites and 3/1s and a fairly fast gruul deck. I think I had a good matchup against orz/simic/dimir but a terrible matchup against speed.

been thinking a bit about Gruul lately. has anyone really seriously tried drafting it? it kinda reminds me of Golgari where it's mostly a good splash color - both Boros and Simic can definitely use some of the good Gruul cards, which sucks if you're trying to just go 2-color since other drafters are going to be splashing some of your best cards.

I never want to go gruul but if you leave yourself open to it, you can have a strong deck if it's open. def think the boros-like gruul is better than the slow big dude gruul. but it does seem like gruul ends up w/ or as a splash more than any other guild.

probably because it seems to have a lot of really great uncommons. but I can't think of one really good G/R common. maybe the Swine??

that's a good point. gruul probably has the best uncommons but terrible commons.

subpar rares/mythics too save rubblebelt

slaughterhorn and the disciple are probably the standout commons for gruul, but i really like fast gruul decks so i prioritize the 2/1 gate guy and the goblin p highly as well. not as big a fan of the 5/4 swine as a lot of people on mtgo seem to be so i haven't drafted it v much yet.

thats the thing though, if Slaughterhorn is a standout, you're talking about a card that is either a worse Giant Growth or a worse Wojiek Halbraiders, for an extra mana. I agree that Swine isn't really good either so the best stuff at common is probably Mugging + maybe Crocanura, both which are drafted highly by other decks. Prioritizing 2/1 dudes seems weak since there isn't much of a way to bust 'em through.

also I've never played it but Clan Defiance seems like a pretty stupid rare

by the way a "reliable source" confirmed that the special mythic Dragons Maze land (that goes only in the "nonbasic land" slot) is basically a Thawing Glaciers for Gates that wins you the game if you have all 10 of them out. let's face it - you had to think they were gonna try something like this (at least if you read Maro's blog - he's dropped some hints about this)

on the pro tour coverage they interviewed ben stark a lot and he's probably one of the top 5 limited players in the world and he said that he likes playing 15-16 lands in his gruul decks because bloodrush makes it more important to always have guys in your hand than it is to hit your 4th or 5th land drop

that's interesting. 15 seems like you're pushing your luck tho...

ps: let's say you're running two of the gate-elves in a straight gruul deck. do you ever include simic or boros gates if you have 1-2 laying around?

depends how high my curve is

i hate the rug ramp style decks but i also just kinda hate non-aggro decks. even the dimir deck that i did well with in a 64-man was v v aggressive. i feel like this format is similar to avr in that i am prioritizing two and three drops much higher than i have in other sets and that im only really happy w/my deck when its fast

i think zendikar is a better comp than avr since there's actually removal in this set

green ramp is nice, whether gruul or simic (although simic's a lil better). verdant haven/greenside watcher/gate is a sweet combo. did someone already mention it here? i think they might have. anyways, i got smoked by that in my big magic day yesterday. came real close to top 8-ing a GPT, but lost last round off a spell rupture. oh well.

i kinda want to play this deck in standard. had a lil eureka moment looking at my trade binder, reading call to the kindred again, and thinking about how i could break it. this looks really quite playable, esp with all the hexproof. need to test on cockatrice a bit.

Kindred Spirits.dec

4 Call to the Kindred

4 Drogskol Captain
2 Drogskol Reaver
2 Dungeon Geists
4 Gloom Surgeon
4 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Obzedat, Ghost Council
1 Phantom General

4 Lingering Souls

1 Ultimate Price
2 Cackling Counterpart
1 Azorius Charm
3 Detention Sphere

2 Orzhov Charm
4 Godless Shrine
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Watery Grave
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Glacial Fortress
2 Isolated Chapel
3 Drowned Catacomb

SB: 2 Ghost Quarter
SB: 3 Negate
SB: 3 Duress
SB: 1 Human Frailty
SB: 1 Witchbane Orb
SB: 2 Devour Flesh
SB: 3 Beckon Apparition

anyways, on the topic of green ramp, you can make it work with frilled oculus and crocanura i think... if you don't have those you're out. if i had primordials or other bombs to ramp into i'd pass madcap in favor of either of those defensive creatures.

pretty sure mugging is the best removal spell in gatecrash. it kills so much good stuff... extort dorks, madcap dork, greenside watcher, all the 3 mana fliers...

i also think 3 is the magic toughness number in this set, like 4 was in RTR. crocanura is such a key card; so many annoying 2 power fliers in GTC. a lot of the good ground guys: disciple of the old ways, syndic, denizens, others, are 2 power as well.

i guess i just don't think it's that hard to stop aggro decks, esp if you take the 3 toughness dudes. i rate the 2/3 denizens, warmind infantry, oculus and croc, undercity informer, high for that reason. i'd even take incursion specialist in a pinch, a card i previously considered hardly playable.

i'm also warming to metropolis sprite. it looks so unassuming but is really a decent body for dimir... simic less so.

holy mantle is a holy terror. i play around it heavy if i see it in someone's deck. like, save all non-essential removal for the possibility of it heavy.

here's a standard deck i was working on last week
http://i.imgur.com/FolmUMN.jpg

everyone's playing esper control now though so i dunno how good it is to play a deck that wants to overextend. pre-board you're basically racing to land one of your big draw spells before they wrath, or else you just lose. post-board i don't even know what my plan vs. control should be.

you gotta let me know how the Call to the Kindred deck works. I love decks based on 25 cent rares. I made an Infinite Reflection deck that was absolutely insane when it went off. I think I tend to just build those kinds of decks over and over, ones that win big and in cool ways but actually kind of suck because everyone plays mass removal.

anyway, I think you're right that Mugging is probably the best common removal. It just slots in so well with Boros and it really disrupts an awful lot. It takes out key creatures in every guild except maybe Gruul. 2 damamge in this set means a lot more than it did in RTR; I remember claiming that Izzet Charm was the best of the charms, then I realized that it never kills anything you really need to kill.

Incursion Specialist is not so good. But the other cards you mention definitely are. Luckily Boros doesn't have any of those Rootborn Defense-type cards that turn an aggro start into a complete blowout. Stopping Boros is definitely difficult if they've got removal. Crocanura is really great - its funny how that's clearly supposed to be a Simic card, while the 2/4 bloodrush for 3G is supposed to be the Gruul card, but I'd pick Crocanura really highly in Gruul. Big reach dudes just make the game take forever, in a good way.

Luckily I haven't had to play vs. a Holy Mantle yet but one thing I did notice with Gift of the Orzhova is that it's not quite Armadillo Cloak-level deadly - G/W tended to have the biggest creatures anyway, while Orzhov doesn't have anything that you can turn into say, a Baneslayer Angel. Still a good card but I actually like it more in Boros.

I really like that deck too cider. Though it reminds me of the decks I always try to build in that it is bad vs. mass removal and it doesn't really have anything to disrupt your opponent...it's kinda up its own ass, so to speak. I'd think you should go to 2 or 3 Prime Speakers though, it looks like exactly what this deck wants so I was surprised to see you've only got one. Maybe 3 Garruks too because that not only draw you a ton of cards but it also gives you some kind of weapon vs. mass removal and dropping it turn 4 is awesome.

while no rootborn defenses, martial glory is a pretty strong combat trick, can be good for just the 3 damage, can be a giant growth and can occasionally blow up an otherwise fair blocking situation

Ive never seen it anything more than a 1-for-1 but yeah I guess I can see that. I haven't gone Boros a whole lot but it always seemed to me that you want to keep your deck as close to creatures/removal as possible.

cheap tricks and act of treason are fine too

i suppose, but you can only have so many such cards in your deck. the more non-creature, non-removal spells you play, the worse Act of Treason is gonna be

removal isn't that important, most of the removal is bad in boros. in a boros aggro deck you'd rather have act of treason or the +1/+1 flying/first strike trick than smite or angelic edict. mugging is great, homing lightning is pretty good, massive raid and arrows of justice are just okay. debtors pulpit is probably bad here but i can still imagine running it. martial glory is probably better than all of these except mugging.

If I've got 16+ creatures I definitely want Massive Raid. I agree that Mugging is definitely the most important because I feel it's really important to get some good attacks in on turns 3-5. Smite is pretty bad outside of Orzhov. Angelic Edict I'd play. Homing Lightning is really good. I guess Martial Glory is a good, high-upside trick, so I won't argue that. But the +1/+1 flying/first strike trick was real underwhelming when I played it. I think all of those cards are going to be good so long as you have a good creature base so I wouldn't take any of them outside of Mugging over the good cheap Boros dudes.

i tried making call to the kindred/bruna work for a bit first after avr and then again at the start of rtr - it was better prerotation since i could still cast ponder but it got destroyed by delver decks and then w/o ponder i had to run too many angels to make the u/w control shell viable.

do people play Delver anymore? if so wouldn't Hands of Binding be pretty good there?

no, probably would be good if they did though.