Magic: The Gathering C/D

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http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/deck/1174

Among the most powerful cards in Gatecrash is Burning-Tree Emissary. It has played a powerful supporting role in a variety of strategies. Inspired by smh's deck that went 4–0 in a Daily Event, we built and tested our own updated version of Naya Super-Fast Humans, largely adapted by Zvi Mowshowitz.

iatee, Wednesday, 20 February 2013 21:12 (eleven years ago) link

haha yeah that deck was like a lightning in a bottle thing, people notice new decks that go 4-0 and i did it at just the right time for a lot of people to notice i guess.

i kind of feel bad that i'm getting credited for it when the guy who built the initial list (NicotineJones on goodgamery forums, not sure who he is irl) has been the source of a bunch of good standard decks over the years and doesn't seem to get credited much.

ciderpress, Wednesday, 20 February 2013 21:49 (eleven years ago) link

What do you think about Wolfbitten Captive vs. Experiment One?

Moodles, Wednesday, 20 February 2013 22:27 (eleven years ago) link

captive might actually be better in humans decks since your guys tend to be 1/1 or 2/2 base and don't evolve the experiment much. experiment one is better in decks that play 3/3s and 4/1s and such though

ciderpress, Thursday, 21 February 2013 03:12 (eleven years ago) link

another take on 5-color GTC draft:

http://www.starcitygames.com/article/25711_First-Picking-Prophetic-Prism.html

Moodles, Thursday, 21 February 2013 16:40 (eleven years ago) link

did people really frequently spend removal spells on Axebane Guardians?

frogbs, Thursday, 21 February 2013 16:43 (eleven years ago) link

I don't know, but I can say that Stab Wound can absolutely shut down an Axebane Guardian deck.

Moodles, Thursday, 21 February 2013 16:45 (eleven years ago) link

how so? it would be like the equivilent of playing a Deathcult Rogue. usually once the Axebanes start falling it isn't long before the big boppers do too

frogbs, Thursday, 21 February 2013 16:50 (eleven years ago) link

It helps nullify your Defenders in the early game while seeping away your life. If your oppenent is playing a fast Rakdos deck, it gives them an opening to hit you very hard early on before you can start getting your big guys out. By the time you've ramped, you are already dead.

Moodles, Thursday, 21 February 2013 17:15 (eleven years ago) link

well Axebane doesnt really block much anyway, and I'd argue that a very fast Rakdos deck is going to do well vs. anybody with a Stab Wound. my problem with it is that it's kind of self-defeating to put it on a wall unless you're just trying to bleed them out. if you're attacking they'll just block with the Axebane and maybe "net" a life point or two they wouldn't have if you just played Auger Spree on it.

frogbs, Thursday, 21 February 2013 17:18 (eleven years ago) link

the problem is that if you start chumping with your defenders you are basically giving up your ramp engine

Moodles, Thursday, 21 February 2013 17:23 (eleven years ago) link

In other words, Stab Wound isn't an auto-win, but it can be abused in various ways to put the Axebane Guardian deck into some very awkward situations.

Moodles, Thursday, 21 February 2013 17:25 (eleven years ago) link

which is ultimately why the Rakdos player would rather spend a Auger Spree or Annihilating Fire on it ...why give them the option. Stab Wound is great at clearing out low-level stuff (say, something that would block a Chainwalker) or giving you late game reach when your offense sputters. it's a really great card of course. ironically it's probably best vs. Rakdos since they can't chump and are likely going to be left with a useless dude that's just killing them slowly.

frogbs, Thursday, 21 February 2013 17:26 (eleven years ago) link

most of the awkward situations an axebane guardian deck found itself in were self-induced

iatee, Thursday, 21 February 2013 17:38 (eleven years ago) link

I had never read the card Ooze Flux before but oh my god is that thing broken in Simic. This dude had out two Crocanuras and a Ivy Denizen so he could essentially zip out a 3/3 for 1G at any time. In most Simic decks this'll be like a hyperactive Vitu-Ghazi Guildmage. I've never seen a card that's stupidly powerful in one deck and completely useless in any other.

frogbs, Thursday, 21 February 2013 21:46 (eleven years ago) link

I had one in a decent simic deck and never had a chance to use it. if you have two crocanuras and an ivy lane (does anyone else always accidentally say 'ivy league denizen') you are prob in a decent place already. I mean its def a card that can take over games but it still requires the right situation.

iatee, Thursday, 21 February 2013 21:49 (eleven years ago) link

Even with only a Raptor or Krasis, it's better than a Jade Mage. That said, I haven't seen the card in action yet, so it's probably harder to set up that situation than it looks.

Vinnie, Thursday, 21 February 2013 21:54 (eleven years ago) link

if you draw it late game in a stall, great, but early game you're down 4+2 mana before you get a 1/1 out of your evolved raptor. you're not happy if it's in your starting 7 vs gruul or boros.

iatee, Thursday, 21 February 2013 21:57 (eleven years ago) link

there's so much syngergy in pretty much any decent Simic deck that you shouldn't have to work too hard to abuse it. that said it does require some set up and it does just boil down to making a bunch of ground dudes in the late game; but it can also be a lot faster/more ambushy than the guildmage, which was a slam dunk first pick as it was.

frogbs, Thursday, 21 February 2013 21:58 (eleven years ago) link

I mean I fully accept that it's not an ideal card for every situation (like, it's not Pack Rat) but when the board is stable and you're ready to zip on it's cuckoo

frogbs, Thursday, 21 February 2013 21:59 (eleven years ago) link

the guildmage is also not amazing ime

I would obv play both these cards in any simic deck but they're super dependent on the rest of your deck. an otherwise mediocre simic deck doesn't get substantially better w/ the ooze and guildmage.

iatee, Thursday, 21 February 2013 22:01 (eleven years ago) link

i mean the vitu-ghazi guildmage. Simic's guildmage is really cool late game but also kind of a mana sink. Ooze Flux I do think really can improve a bad simic deck. It's nearly impossible to draft a deck that won't have synergy with it. Unless you somehow end up with like, 4 or less evolve dudes.

frogbs, Thursday, 21 February 2013 22:14 (eleven years ago) link

it's possible to draft a deck that doesn't have time to take advantage of its synergy

iatee, Thursday, 21 February 2013 22:17 (eleven years ago) link

I mean in the handful of games I had it, I was either winning fast enough that I always wanted to use the turn for a creature or losing fast enough that I didn't have the option to spend so much time/mana making a 1/1

iatee, Thursday, 21 February 2013 22:18 (eleven years ago) link

heh. looks like those pesky chinese hackers got to MTGO too. none are safe!

(that was supposed to be comical speculation. the server had a big fizzle out is all)

cocktail onion (fennel cartwright), Friday, 22 February 2013 06:11 (eleven years ago) link

im happy cuz my draft was going p badly

kill yuppies (Lamp), Friday, 22 February 2013 06:33 (eleven years ago) link

Feel very underprepared for this GP I'm going to today, and we're getting there late enough that we won't have time to play in the last-chance grinders for practice either. Sometime between now and tomorrow, I need to at least memorize all the dang Bloodrush tricks.

Vinnie, Friday, 22 February 2013 14:14 (eleven years ago) link

lately I've been forcing Dimir every draft and getting a lot of 3-0's because it's stupidly underdrafted right now. hope that helps

frogbs, Friday, 22 February 2013 14:32 (eleven years ago) link

what are the highest picks iyo?

iatee, Friday, 22 February 2013 14:34 (eleven years ago) link

dinrova horror, grisly spectacle, basilica screecher, death's approach, killing glare, undercity informer, wight of precinct six, dimir charm, bane alley broker. also balustrade spy and call of the nightwing to a lesser extent.

grisly spectacle and basilica screecher are probably your highest non-rare picks because they're the only ones that the orzhov decks also take high. everything that's specific to dimir goes surprisingly late. you can get as many death's approaches as you want practically (and they get better in multiples). a lot of the key roleplayers for the archetype like sage's row denizen or shadow slice will frequently wheel.

ciderpress, Friday, 22 February 2013 14:43 (eleven years ago) link

oh i forgot devour flesh but that's pretty high too of course. there's like a feedback loop with death's approach where the more removal you get, the more removal you get.

ciderpress, Friday, 22 February 2013 14:46 (eleven years ago) link

yeah I agree with all that. I don't like Shadow Slice much and really love Call of the Nightwing. Thats a card I seem to get every draft and draw frequently. You also definitely want Devour Flesh. It's a card that combos well with other removal and I think Dimir has a strength in that it can deal with other creatures in so many ways. Also don't forget the 2/2 that can't be blocked except by Rogues. by the way there ARE some Rogues in this set so dont just assume he's unblockable. I blocked one with a Bane Alley Broker and I think it blew the dude's mind. then again I've attacked into some 2/3 Rogue too and also had my mind blown so basically - pay attention.

frogbs, Friday, 22 February 2013 14:50 (eleven years ago) link

Haha assuming I make day 2 (I have done this but once in my life), I'll force Dimir for you guys.

Vinnie, Friday, 22 February 2013 14:52 (eleven years ago) link

i wouldn't ever force dimir though - the gold cards in this format are mostly very good and act as strong signals, so it's important to be willing to just slip into whatever's coming your way, if you see a drakewing krasis or a skarrg guildmage or something like that 5th or 6th pick.

the fact that this open guild has happened to be dimir in almost all my drafts so far does not change the concept

ciderpress, Friday, 22 February 2013 14:53 (eleven years ago) link

I think in almost every draft I've done, either Dimir or Simic has been ridiculously open. Boros seems to get eaten up quickly, the good Gruul stuff gets splashed around a lot, and I think a lot of people try to build the Extort deck because it's really quite easy to play and win with. So lately I've gone in with the intention of playing one of those two and it's worked out so far. I'm guessing things will "normalize" somewhat in the next few weeks.

frogbs, Friday, 22 February 2013 14:57 (eleven years ago) link

and you certainly may not see the same sort of imbalance at a GP

Moodles, Friday, 22 February 2013 15:00 (eleven years ago) link

yeah i'm kind of bummed at the imbalance, i just haven't gotten to play with half the cards in the set yet because they're never available

ciderpress, Friday, 22 February 2013 15:00 (eleven years ago) link

Actually, based on previous GPs I've been to, the draft competition on day 2 can be easier than MTGO 8-4s. I think there's a lot of players who make day 2 on the back of an insane sealed pool, or maybe have a lot of prior Magic experience but not much experience with the set being drafted. In the one GP where I made day 2, I was boggled by what cards were going late in the drafts, and I've had friends who had similar experiences.

Vinnie, Friday, 22 February 2013 15:05 (eleven years ago) link

I mean, if I make day 2, I will be that horrible drafter probably.

Vinnie, Friday, 22 February 2013 15:06 (eleven years ago) link

i think a lot of people look to force a deck they're comfortable with in GP drafts. this is awful and leads to things like the GP London top 8 which was probably the worst display of drafting i've ever seen at a premier level event. only 1 person in that top 8 had a deck that made any sense, and they unsurprisingly won.

ciderpress, Friday, 22 February 2013 15:10 (eleven years ago) link

When I played online poker a lot the following statement really blew my mind: "the average online grinder probably plays more hands in a week than Doyle Brunson ever did in an entire year". I think for most formats, I don't really feel comfortable knowing what's all good and bad until I've drafted it about 7-8 times. Your average non-MTGO player may only do one draft a week. Just saying. I never really understood say, the original Ravnica draft format in its entire lifespan as much as I did RTR after only two weeks of online play.

frogbs, Friday, 22 February 2013 15:14 (eleven years ago) link

7-8 times is not even enough for me, i need like 10-20. i try to draft every format ~50 times before it's gone, which is usually just enough for me to go through the whole "learning -> competence -> expertise -> fucking around drafting gimmick decks" cycle.

ciderpress, Friday, 22 February 2013 15:20 (eleven years ago) link

i think 15-20 is around when I start to feel like I can start giving advice. the 7-8 number is when I stop feeling lost. like when a format is new and you try hard to build something good but you really have no idea what kind of decks you're going to play against and what cards you'll see. like that's how many drafts it would take people during AVR season to realize "wait a sec, Boros humans isn't really what you want, G/U is way better"

frogbs, Friday, 22 February 2013 15:23 (eleven years ago) link

I'm definitely a once per week drafter and I feel like I just haven't had enough exposure to GTC so far, especially since my LGS often does other random non-GTC drafts instead. I'm sorely tempted to start drafting on MTGO, but I'm worried that it will end up bankrupting me.

Moodles, Friday, 22 February 2013 15:27 (eleven years ago) link

if you're decent and just do the Swiss ones I don't think you wind up spending that much. I probably spent about $80 on tix during RTR season and I'm still riding that into Gatecrash. then again I did get 3 Jaces in my first 5 RTR drafts

frogbs, Friday, 22 February 2013 15:29 (eleven years ago) link

http://magiccards.info/chk/en/277.html

so this card randomly shot up to $10 from bulk rare price in the past day or 2 for no apparent reason

mtg secondary market is very strange sometimes

ciderpress, Friday, 22 February 2013 15:30 (eleven years ago) link

some people were playing it in their modern decks at the pt iirc

kill yuppies (Lamp), Friday, 22 February 2013 16:55 (eleven years ago) link

there was no modern pt, not since october. no modern GP lately either

ciderpress, Friday, 22 February 2013 16:57 (eleven years ago) link

no, i meant the modern pt last fall. it was featured on camera and none of the commentators knew what the card did.

Sometime between now and tomorrow, I need to at least memorize all the dang Bloodrush tricks.

i think the only really scary ones are at rare or uncommon - the rampager is g/r for +4/+4 and trample, the +3+/+3 and double strike for 3rr and the +9/+9 and trample for... i think 4gg.

also general theory qn: how willing are you to play into bloodrush? i feel like if im willing to trade in the first place im almost always willing to trade for a potentially better creature in hand, esp in the early turns of a game. there are times when i haven't been able to recover a board presence but more often you can get people to play out their hand killing your 2/3 drops and then not have anything left after turn 5.

I'm sorely tempted to start drafting on MTGO, but I'm worried that it will end up bankrupting me.

i put $50 in at the beginning of each new set and have earned enough during the release queues to draft and play standard for the rest of that season. the release sealed events in particular are both excellent practice and tend to be easier than the regular events. i was also lucky enough to win one of the 64-man events so i'm way up on packs for gtc.

kill yuppies (Lamp), Friday, 22 February 2013 17:07 (eleven years ago) link

i try to play around the 2/1 goblin since it's usually a worse creature than whatever i'm blocking with, but otherwise i'm fine playing into bloodrush if i have a blocker that's not too important to my board state.

ciderpress, Friday, 22 February 2013 17:12 (eleven years ago) link


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