Magic: The Gathering C/D

i really don't think there are going to be archetypes per se, i would hope/expect it to just be really fluid and most decks will trend towards midrange so you'll want to look for card-level synergies to get you ahead. also you should be drafting the gates pretty high and if other people aren't you can really take advantage of that by setting yourself up to steal all the individually powerful cards in packs 2 and 3

thought about this more and there definitely are archetypes still but they're more about what your deck is doing than about rigid gameplans like in the single set formats. like for example there's the +1/+1 counter abuse deck but that could be simic+golgari or it could be one of the two simic colors plus rakdos, or it could be simic plus one of the two rakdos colors. likewise, there will be the aggro deck which is probably going to want to have boros and/or rakdos in it for the cheap above-curve creatures but the other half could be azorius, gruul, or even izzet which all have mechanics that punch damage through in different ways.

I really have no idea what this'll be like but a lack of too many "junk" commons + the 15th slot being a dual land instead of a basic means that DGM will likely have a lot of influence on your final deck and honestly I just don't see 2 color decks working

2 color's not supposed to work, its supposed to be 3 by default. so 2 would be equivalent to playing a mono-color deck in most normal formats, which is only very occasionally viable

i'm trying to envision a scenario where you could hit one guild super hard but it just doesn't seem possible. what's going to be interesting is that if you go like Red/Blue/White then you get Boros in GTC and then Azorius and Izzet in RTR, so you have to hit RTR hard even though it's the 3rd pack. also all that artifact destruction may be nice with the Cluestones floating around.

my problem is going to be keeping it to 3 colors and not always going for 4 or 5.

btw i think the cluestones will be just okay and you won't want to load up on them too hard, they're just mid-pack picks to flesh out the manabase of a more midrangey/controlling deck. they're worse than the keyrunes, for comparison, and you never really wanted more than 2 keyrunes in your deck. the gates are the strong fixers in this block and should go much earlier in draft.

and going for 4 or 5 colors seems fine, just make sure you prioritize mana fixing and keep your early game plays to 2 or 3 colors with the rest of the colors being cards that are strong mid-to-late game plays or removal that you don't mind potentially getting stuck in your hand until turn 8 or whatnot.

The guilds in orig Ravnica were a bit more uniform in speed and play. Boros and Rakdos, for example, weren't nearly as aggressive as they are in GTC and RTR iirc. So all decks tended toward midrange or control, and that was especially true once the full block was in play and you were forced to play 3 colors. Like you mention, cider, this set is gonna be interesting because unlike orig Ravnica there are guilds that pair well in style of play like Boros/Rakdos or Gruul/Rakdos, but there's so many combinations that it won't boil down to easy archetypes. I think this'll be a very challenging, freeform set to draft, with lots of opportunity for savvy players to put together synergies. I'm excited!

What's also interesting in that in both the combos I mentioned, the third guild of the triad doesn't match the same style of play, but probably has cards that would fit well into the deck. Yeah this is gonna be a fun block.

Yeah I'm already thinking of Izzet/Dimir with Guttersnipes and Cipher cards. So yeah Rakdos isn't going to fit in that well but every guild has those sort of cards (like say, Auger Spree) that are good enough to fit anywhere.

I do think the Cluestones are at least on par with the Keyrunes, which I never really activated too much anyway. They seem like back-end picks to me that are basically there to prevent mana screw. That said I wonder if having all this ramp and midranging everything makes something like Totally Lost a much higher pick.

there are really very few aggressive commons here. even the common battalion dude is just a 2/2 that gets lifelink. the unleash guy just becomes a 2/3 flyer. meanwhile there is like a 1U 0/5, a 1B 1/3, and so on. I think this'll be a good two turns slower than pure GTC.

i did my number crunching on this format already and the numbers came out a bit slower than 3x RTR or M13, but still faster than ROE

so my first take - golgari, simic seem much more playable, dimir, orzhov, esper far less playable than before.

yeah i mostly agree with that. i also think izzet and azorius will play really strong due to having a lot of cards that break board stalls. like if everyone's just dropping 2/4s and 3/5s that bounce off each other and games stall out with big boards on both sides, then something like teleportal suddenly reads "you win the game". i don't know if this is actually what the format will look like in practice though

in particular i think the izzet play pattern from RTR is going to be the best plan for making aggressive decks work, though it doesn't necessarily require izzet cards, just the ability to put a bunch of power on the board and then use light disruption spells to get a couple heavy hits in

i am guessing orzhov takes the hardest hit of any guild in playability

there are lots of teleportal equivalents too, gridlock, gruul charm and now gruul war chant

yeah orzhov depended on getting a critical quantity of extort and a critical quantity of removal and you're not gonna get that w/ the dgm and rtr packs

yeah with only one common extorter in DGM it looks like you can't count on getting more than 3 extort cards. i'm sure orzhov will live in some way though. it looks like most limited decks will be a combination of 2 or 3 strategies.

im interested in an orzhov-based hand destruction deck probably W/B/r i guess? i was always looking for shrieking affliction decks to be open in rtr and there are a few additions in the other sets. biggest downside is not getting access to multiple afflictions tho so it may not work.

i also think izzet and azorius will play really strong due to having a lot of cards that break board stalls

yeah i was thinking izzet is the best bet for the prerelease since it has a bunch of really nice synergies btw the various touching guilds and i think it has the most flexibility. i cant really tell what the initial default is going to be for people - my inclination is to use a single color as a base and then build around that taking any gates p high and looking to take any solid multicolor card that shares my base. but maybe thats too narrow a strategy?

so there are apparently ways to play this on cockatrice if anyone is interested

yep, works

http://www.woogerworks.com/
http://www.anothermagicblog.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/dragons-maze-on-cockatrice.html

from a 2 draft sample size, this format is insanely slow

fennel your cockatrice first impressions infodump for gatecrash was incredibly valuable so if you end up playing this a bunch please do the same

i only played those 2 drafts and won't have a chance to play until after the prerelease. missing that too - parents are in town so no time for magic.

but in those 2 drafts, i tried an aggro deck and a durdle deck. the durdle deck won, the aggro deck didn't. it was pretty much just "play bigger stuff than your opponent."

i think that generally you can survive to play 6-drops. having 6-drop creature synergy will probably be important, especially with those maze behemoth/abomination/etc cards. think of them basically like sapphire drakes, and prioritize 4 and 5 drops that can really benefit from them. i think the big multicolor beaters like spawn of rix maadi, golgari longlegs, armored wolf-rider, zhur-taa swine stand to benefit hugely from the DGM 6-drops.

manabases will also be shaky enough to make aggro decks difficult to play. so much of gatecrash's speed had to do with how synergistic the guilds were. like, the best aggro decks in boros and simic were just the ones where you drafted all the guild C/Us. going 3 colors takes away a lot of the obvious synergies. i do think aggro will have a place, but i think we're gonna have to relearn how to play it. i expect to shift my gameplan back to building aggro once people clue in to how effective the high drops are in DGM block draft.

it does seem a lot like a "build around a key uncommon" format. ones i like so far include:

Ascended Lawmage - start w/ this or armadillo cloak, basically the gameplan is to cobble together hexproof beaters w/ auras. rubbleback rhino becomes a p3p1 pick if you're going this route imo.

Maw of the Obzedat - draft a bunch of crappy dinks and Maw to give them utility lategame. i tried this in my first match, it didn't do great but i'm convinced it will work. i had that 6-mana boros enchantment that gives attackers +1/+1 counters, and it was surprisingly effective, but i'm not quite sold on this card anyways. i also think that Weapon Surge is a sweet card and would draft that here too.

Korozda Gorgon - i think you guys basically identified that BUG abuse-the-counters deck already

i could spew out a few more but these might not even be good to start with. i gotta get back to dealing with stuff anyways. hope you guys do well at the prerelease!!

maze glider seems like it could potentially be the best common in the set

gonna see if i can get the golgari/simic box at the prerelease, i have a hunch that it's going to be the most powerful one

yeah I have a feeling about golgari too

that 2/5 deathtouch gorgon that can turn your +1/+1 counters into creature removal is potentially bomb-rare-level impact despite being uncommon especially if you're in simic too

and golgari gets the best removal spell in the set (putrefy)

so do we know how the guilds are going to be paired up at the prerelease? or was Golgari + Simic an educated guess?

there's a box for every combo of RTR guild + GTC guild that share a color. your second guild is only as 'secret' as your prerelease organizer wants it to be, because it's on the other side of the box, so you'll know what you're getting before you open one

since it looks like its going to be raining all day on sunday anyway im going to play the prerelease on my vacation, just booked for izzet. looking to jam some bounce and counters and fliers, see how that works against 5/4s. v v excited, also v v ashamed

xpost

That's cool, I had assumed it was either just a single pairing for each guild or that you wouldn't know until you opened the box.

I'm doing Gruul with the hopes of getting paired with either Golgari or Rakdos. My guess is that there will be fewer synergies with these pairs than Golgari/Simic, but I want a chance to play my favorite guilds together.

should i play the dark ascension prerelease tournament it means getting up at 8am on a saturday

― roborally.rar (Lamp), Thursday, January 19, 2012 5:23 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

how far we've come :D

considering doing a midnight release

i always do the midnight one and then deeply regret it when it's 4am and i feel gross and dirty from being in a crowded basement room all night and still have a round left to play

i haven't done one sober since like 2007 and I too regret it around bar close time when you still have two rounds left and everyone's a little testy

I'm not 100% at this point but the alternative is being home alone tonight so it seems like a reasonable idea

like just bar-hopping with some of the cooler Magic players I know in preparation for the pre-release is twice as fun as the actual pre-release

I don't know any cool magic players

other than myself I guess

ignore what I said 2 minutes ago about how I'm only doing this because I have nothing to do tonight

well obviously its more fun than sitting at home

my store actually rents out a larger space sometimes for the saturday ones which is a vast improvement in comfort. i still go to the in-store midnight one though because i'm dumb

they're not the kind of people you want to hang around with every week but they're definitely fun every once in a while

the store I go to actually is pretty roomy

20 sided in bklyn notsomuch

my store has tables/chairs for like 80-90 people which used to be pretty roomy but they're drawing at least twice as many people for magic events now as they did 2 years ago when i started playing there. they've started having to turn people away from FNM some weeks which is insane.

you live in boston, right?

yeah

i'm hoping ~*capitalism*~ will cause a nicer game store to open since there's clearly become a market for it, but right now it's the only one in the city with play space for more than like 1 or 2 draft pods

yeah there is a huge scene in new york but few actual stores because of rent, I guess

ars arcanum thing is up http://puremtgo.com/articles/ars-arcanum-dragons-maze-limited-primer-part-i

nothing too bold this time around, tldr version is that the format will slow down by a ton, the long-game guilds obviously profit more from this than the aggro ones, and the exception is selesnya which takes a big hit due to no common token makers in the new set.