Are white people who say "I don't like hip hop" yet listen to it when white people make it really saying "i don't like black people"?

He'll love Akon then.

Man, have you heard the narrative in most Rock/Pop? This is not philosophy.

wtf.

1997, median household income of the second-lowest quintile was around $22k. I'm guessing Em's mom didn't clear that. So yeah, most Americans came from slightly plusher circumstances than Eminem.

choice cut from the Fresh Prince: "Black radio, they won't play me though," he raps in one song. "Guess they think that Will ain't hard enough. Maybe I should just have a shootout ... just ignorant, attacking, acting rough. I mean then, will I be black enough?"

yeah I thought that was wierd!
-- M@tt He1geson (matt@game[remove]informer.com), June 27th, 2005 3:18 PM. (Matt Helgeson) (link)

I'm just saying that, given the choice between The Chronic and Master of Puppets, I'd probably take Metallica every day of the week because that's just how I'm wired. It's not a race thing. It's a sound thing.

Rather, it's that such listeners are only meaningfully exposed to (and thus turned on to) hip hop which the indie/alternative structure as a whole has decided to endorse. It was, I think, impossible to have a passing interest in alt. rock throughout the 90s without coming across much praise of the Beastie Boys as trailblazers, but it would be comparatively easy to effectively ignore the existence of 2Pac etc. This insofar as, for many listeners, mainstream radio play is treated as little more than background noise, but the recommendations of friends, college radio DJs and certain magazines count for a great deal.

There seems to be a rebuttable presumption enforced by this structure of endorsement that whiteness is a prima facie sign of good values and innovation. This can be overcome both ways - ie. white people can be kicked out and black people can be invited in, but they have to make an extra special effort on both sides. Bubba Sparxxx is not part of the club because all of his associations are distasteful (a fat hick who talks about sex as crudely as any black gangsta rapper!) but Michael Franti is because he has good old fashioned uni leftist politics, flirts with rock/soul/etc. and uses live instruments (The Roots and Andre 3000 have been issued guest passes for similar reasons).

It also comes from the perceived position of the person - why it's okay for someone to like Ben Folds' cover of Bitches Ain't Shit because it's perceived to be "ironic" while NWA would never be given that kind of credit.

and re those subtextual issues, i trust that some of these white "i can't relate to black rappers" dudes are solidly middle-class and are totally immune to what life experiences underlie the above subjects for jigga and fiddy.

Haha genetically programmed to like Metallica.

Yeah but if it wasn't just you but every seemingly tasteful rock fan they knew who was repping for black hip hop you can bet they'd strain harder to hear the value in the music. Having a friend play you stuff isn't enough in this regard - there needs to be an entire culture of validation such that the hip hop-skeptic feels under pressure to question their own position.

The changes in the coverage policy of Pitchfork is a good example of this process occurring on a wider scale - it's not like the quality of street hip hop has changed dramatically in the last five years, rather it's the critical environment which has changed to the extent that media organs who had previously consciously ignored this music no longer feel quite so comfortable doing so.

xxxxxpost

Probably. Beck and the Beastie Boys don't really get played on hip-hop radio stations.

if so, why haven't they?

Because they suck?

and again, WHY don't they get played on hip hop stations?

Obv. the exact same thing happens wrt to black hip hop stations and media organs gravitating towards black artists.

The existence of friends who don't follow trends doesn't challenge the overall "trickle down" effect of this structural taste-making, any more than (to use an entirely random example) the existence of non-racist white people contradicts a trend of racial prejudice/privilege as a whole.

xpost they were EXAMPLES. but yes I can give you an example: Will Smith!

Tim, everything you've said has been OTM but I have to question this part:

Obv. the exact same thing happens wrt to black hip hop stations and media organs gravitating towards black artists.

Does the black media really practice the same prejudices in reverse? AFAIK, the Beasties in their prime, Vanilla Ice, and Eminem were equally embraced by the hip-hop audience and media. And in cases where there hasn't been a crossover there is usually a pretty obvious reason sonically. Do any Beck or Prefuse 73 tracks really fit into the narrow framework of mainstream hip-hop radio or club playlists?

White people even say, "Pete Rock is bitchin"

Like Tito, white kids think I'm neato

(J Ro on "Pass Out")

any more of these?

his forte causes caucasians to say

it comes down to how much people associate a group's image with whether they like them or not

i don't wanna say i'm "above image", but i can succesfully ignore a lot of what a band/group/whatever "stands for" and appreciate them on a musical level. dudes who only listen to beastie boys still prolly can't shake this.

my guess is beastie boys-only fans prefer the music from their more boorish days, so problematic image doesn't seem a likely culprit.

"to white boys I'm rad"

--Pismo, "Artform"

i dont think there's anything wrong with liking the Beasties but not really being a hip-hop fan - the Beasties aren't really like anyone else out there

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Rafaua3D__w/Td8Uzr3XPSI/AAAAAAAAEYg/0lcWqQvG4F0/s1600/thinking+frog.jpg

lol