DEM not gonna CON dis NATION: Rolling UK politics in the short-lived post-Murdoch era

those lyrics in full: http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/may/10/des-lynam-endorses-ukip-song

Wow Cameron is really fucking up this EU thing isn't he? He's somehow contrived to make himself look both spineless and that he's lost control, in ways that aren't really going to appeal to anyone.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/05/michael-gove-revealed-be-using-pr-commissioned-puff-polls-evidence

starting to get scared about this eu thing now. a poll on the guardian today has 32% of ppl wanting to 'definitely leave the eu immediately'. as fun as it is to watch the tories fall apart, i'm worried that all the focus now seems to be on the power struggle surrounding whether/when to have the referendum and when the time comes to actually campaign on the benefits of staying in the union it will be too late. such a shame labour won't take a stand on this.

absolutely. the agenda's all being dictated by the worst people afaict and any discussion has circled around a centre point that's way over to their side.

I can't see business, including the majority of the Conservatives' backers, letting it happen. Both parties would have to campaign on a pro-EU platform. It looks more like a hapless attempt to strong-arm the EU into caving in to British demands than much of a genuine threat to participation.

a poll on the guardian today has 32% of ppl wanting to 'definitely leave the eu immediately'. as fun as it is to watch the tories fall apart

Given that we've had a wall-to-wall non-stop barrage of anti-EU propaganda for the last 20 years, 32% isn't really that high. Always believed there should be an straight in-out referendum if only to shut people up, pro-EU would win it in a cakewalk.

Ultimately this is the sort of mess that governing by focus group gets you.

Always believed there should be an straight in-out referendum if only to shut people up, pro-EU would win it in a cakewalk.

Don't think this is true at all really. Although I'm surprised how little was made of Obama getting up and going "this is really stupid, guyz" yesterday.

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSC4ES12cl9O5Dr96xrP5K9lPQaHx0-jQSfgMXveoNFWX2qJuMMBg
I declare nuclear war

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSIEemZB5iyn2DVA7ahYIsnr2FdtLxNiApst6ZC2DNkpQlqIP5dEw
I declare referendum on EU

i wd like to hear somebody make the case for the EU in clear terms quoting stats cos tbh if BUSINESS is all in favour i'm not sure what's in it for me

oh je

This whole thing is just wonderful btw:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/may/17/nigel-farage-fascist-scum-protesters

Then, finally, the harassed and ill-prepared handful of police officers was forced to push him back into the Canon's Gait, slamming its front doors shut, as the demonstrators chanted: "Nigel, you're a bawbag, Nigel you're a bawbag, na, na, na, hey!".

Yeah, that bit was especially heartwarming to read.

GMS interview was great too. Dude really takes him to task. First audio clip here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-22566183

"If this is the face of Scottish nationalism, it's a pretty ugly picture."

Sticks and stones, Nige, sticks and stones

do you think Nige is saying nationalism always leads to ugly scenes?

People need to get up in Farage's shit more often, and I include rival politicians who are normally shit scared of him.

Indeed, he is a clown. Full interview here.

Although it's not strictly accurate, I loved the heckler who told Frottage he knew as much about Scotland as he did light aircraft.

"Farage was first forced out of the Canon's Gait pub after the landlord took fright as the protesters disrupted his press conference with shouts of "racist", "scum" and "homophobe". Out on the street, as the fingers pointed and taunts escalated, he was rejected by one taxi and turfed out of a second."

LOL Edinburgh hospitality at its finest

I am struggling to see how Edinburgh's welcome would be any better than Glasgow's.

Sorry, that was a West Coast dig at the warm-hearted and welcoming citizens of Auld Reekie

Happy to put city rivalries aside and unite as one massive ukip-tolling conurbation tbh

er, trolling. Although we'll take your cash too nige, ya wobbly-lipped shitehawk.

All 19th Hole bigots are WATBs when challenged, it's the rules.

reading today's observer, it's just one thing after another for poor old d camz

The Conservative said on Friday: "It's fine. There's really no problem. The MPs just have to do it because the associations tell them to, and the associations are all mad, swivel-eyed loons."

don't understand why some people get so worked up about being described accurately

I can see him being torn apart by his party before too long. This is all starting to reach a hysterical pitch that's wholly disproportionate to its urgency.

Almost Shakespearean that Cameron, after modelling himself on Blair for so long, could find himself destroyed by the folly of governing by focus group.

if there is a referendum and the vote is to stay in, the conservative meltdown is going to be amazing/permanent

What's the polling on such a referendum saying now?

Not necessarily a good thing (xp)

50/50 xp

according to today's observer. read so many articles about europe and the conservatives in the paper that i can't actually find the specific link any more.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/may/18/tory-party-europe-lord-howe

Recent polls show that those who want the UK to leave the EU and those who want the country to stay in are evenly matched. An Opinium/Observer poll published today suggests that more than two-thirds of voters (67%) want Cameron to "listen and pay more attention" to the views of his backbenchers.

"evenly-matched" is where i'm getting that 50/50 from, so who knows.

of course it will depend a lot on the "renegotiation" and the two alternatives (exactly what "in" and "out" mean)

An Opinium/Observer poll published today suggests that more than two-thirds of voters (67%) want Cameron to "listen and pay more attention" to the views of his backbenchers.

I'd like to see what the actual question was and what the actual response was. I would imagine that at least 50% of voters couldn't give a fuck who Cameron listens to.

http://news.opinium.co.uk/sites/news.opinium.co.uk/files/VI_14_05_2013.pdf
Recently David Cameron has been criticised by some Conservative backbench MPs and party members over Europe and other issues. Regardless of your views on the issues, which of the following do you think the Prime Minister should do?
- Enforce his views and overrule them
- Listen and pay more attention to their views
- Don't know

That's a bit loaded really - people are forced to give an answer, but most probably don't give a monkeys. 67% choosing the second option is not the same as 67% actively wanting Cameron to listen to his back benchers.

i don't know to what extent polls take into account the likelihood of Yes or No voters to actually vote. i can imagine the Nos being considerably more active/motivated.

i do not understand this gay marriage story, which reflects poorly on my reading comprehension, but also on the conservative party. how could this be so complicated?

I'm assuming Cameron can get through the gay marriage bill through anyway? All the LibDems and most of Labour will vote in favour, even if most of his party vote against. Always amusing when that happens.

iirc a lot of labour mps are thought to be voting for the "extend civil partnerships to straights" amendment too?

Yeah I couldn't follow the logic behind that at all. Why scupper marriage equality for a bit of symbolism? Unless the Labour MPs are actually against gay marriage, but that wasn't stated anywhere in the article I read.

Some of them are against gay marriage I think

I think it's a mix of people who are genuinely against gay marriage, in favour of straight civil partnerships, and just want to vote against the government.

I'm all in favour of straight civil partnerships really but I doubt that's really what this amendment is about, beyond some lame "why can't we have WHITE history month eh???" bullshit.

It makes sense to me to round out the legislation so that everyone, regardless of gender or sexuality, is entitled to have the same types of partnerships with the same rights - but I don't think there's a large body of straight couples desperate to have a not-a-marriage civil partnership so it's not necessary to include it at this time.

i kind of wonder how much basic westminster trolling there is in there -- fucking up the tories' gay marriage plans so that labour could subsequently do it and get the kudos?

i mean, i would like civil partnership to be extended to the straights, the way it is in France. Obviously I am coming from a very specific political/ideological position here, but as a marriage non-fan** the equal civil partnership seems like something with a lot of hope and potential to it. To me it's not "a bit of symbolism". (i mean, if a civil partnership currently bestows the same legal rights as a marriage, then marriage equality itself is "a bit of symbolism". these bit of symbolism are important.)

buttttt it is a bit worrying that pushing this point might lead the tory leadership to go into a huff and take their ball home and fuck everything up for people who are, for whatever reason, super into extending marriage.

** i don't have anything against it, it's just not really my bag

What is the difference in practical terms between a civil partnership and a marriage? If it isn't much, is there any point in civil partnerships existing once marriage has been extended to everyone?