The Jam : Classic or, wait for it................

Cheers for the recommendation, Gerald, I'll check it out! I'm still very surprised there wasn't a live disc or two included in the Direction, Reaction, Creation boxset... would have been nice to have a couple of live discs alongside the full studio works and the demos disc.

Treasure my memories of seeing the Jam live in the early '80s, but should I go see Paul Weller later this month? I haven't kept up with his solo stuff at all.

I only saw Weller once, in 1997, but it was very strange. Among the good-to-great songs, there was a lot of Traffic-esque soloing. Much of it went nowhere fast. Dunno if he still does that now, though.

I'd be probably the wrong person to ask... I pretty much get off the Paul Weller solo bus after Heliocentric. I'm not really a big fan of the way his voice sounds in recent years, and I think the productions (even on the Simon Dine-produced stuff) aren't as great as the records he made with Brendan Lynch.

I only saw Weller once, in 1997, but it was very strange. Among the good-to-great songs, there was a lot of Traffic-esque soloing. Much of it went nowhere fast. Dunno if he still does that now, though.

― Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Wednesday, June 5, 2013 3:02 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Oh god yeah, I remember his Heavy Soul period being one of his worst for indulgent guitar soloing, but he was even at it before then... live versions of 'Foot Of The Mountain' used to go on for seriously long amounts of time because of the amount of soloing. The studio version is under 4 minutes long, but live versions could be up to 15 minutes long.

I'm not sure how much soloing his does these days, or even what his newer touring band is like... but I can't imagine it being anywhere near as great as when Steve White was behind the kit.

The thing is, I have nothing at all against long solos, but Weller was really, really bad at it. Like, shockingly bad at extended solos. He was unfocused, exhausted his few interesting ideas within the first 30 seconds, and didn't even seem to be enjoying it much himself. I was utterly baffled, not just because I didn't think he did that sort of thing, but because up to then I'd always dug him as a player.

I absolutely agree, I don't think he's any good at extended guitar solos... I'm fact, I'm unsure as to what made him think it was a good idea to try out lengthy solos to begin with. Wasn't he doing a fair amount of coke circa Heavy Soul? Looking back on it now, his Wild Wood through to Heavy Soul period looks a touch like a man going through a bit of a mid-life crisis. He split up with his wife (Dee C Lee), started hanging out with the Gallaghers, and started acting much more "the rock star" than he ever would have allowed himself to in The Jam and The Style Council.

I'm unsure as to what made him think it was a good idea to try out lengthy solos to begin with.

I blame Traffic (as mentioned upthread). He's a good guitarist, so you know, an excuse to flash his chops, as it were.

the jam's obsession with the who circa 1966 went well beyond the legal definition of stalking. covered "so sad about us" and "disguises." RE-covered "heat wave" and "batman." brazenly lifted a bit of the who's "in the city" for their own "in the city." if you have a strong hankering for the jam right now, you could easily satisfy it by listening to the cd version of a quick one, which contains all of those songs and is, um, better.

they managed to make quite a few worthy tracks along with quite a few clunkers in those days. I liked them a lot more, though, later on when they started stalking the beatles, the supremes and pigbag.

Musician in 'influenced by other musicians' shocker.

brazenly lifted a bit of the who's "in the city" for their own "in the city."

Not in the least. There's no resemblance whatsoever between the two:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pv36VfXPFno

It's usually the old 'Start!' vs. 'Taxman' argument that gets wheeled out time and time again. I mean, I'd be last to deny that they lifted the arrangement from 'Taxman'... but... different chord changes, different top line... different song!

Found it interesting to see Rowland S Howard describing the Boys Next Door in a review before he joined them. He was talking about Mick harvey as influenced by Paul Weller I think derived from Mick's own comments.

I also know the Meat puppets liked the Jam, since they told me so in '87.

compare the melody/phrasing of "in the city everybody's right..." at 0:50 in that who clip with the main hook ("in the city there's a thousand things i want to say to you") of the jam song. a pretty clear connection to me. i'm not saying there's anything wrong with it. i am saying that they took one very particular influence further than most bands take any particular influence, and they took it in a very transparent way that fascinates me. i'm a fan. i love "start"! i'm not trying to make an argument. just pointing out the obvious and saying i like what they did with it in some places, and i don't like what they did with it in others.

Eh, I don't really hear it (I'm not trying to make an argument either, and I'm a huge fan of both bands).

So in the 2000s there were lots of British indie bands that operated in more or less the same space as the Jam, and previous to that there's Oasis and Britpop, and without too much vagueness you could say they were doing something similar. Did any of this The Jam-like material have much value? Were The Jam the last time when there was energy in ordinary young men doing streetwise social realism?

Having typed that out, I find myself questioning every term in it but it's the closest I can get to expressing what I mean. Because I can get a kick out of the Jam I could never get out of the Libertines even though I was in their target demographic at the time, and even though I only started listening to the Jam once I was over the hill, so that the Jam never had the 'I listened to this when I was growing up' position in my little inner world. In fact there's such a chasm between The Jam and all that stuff that was quite a lot like The Jam ...

.. Because the Jam were better?

Not 'alf

Were The Jam the last time when there was energy in ordinary young men doing streetwise social realism?

Ever hear about this thing called rap music?

NickB - Argh quite right, I forgot to put ordinary young white men doing streetwise social realism with guitars.

And I meant within British pop culture too

The new live box is a scorcher. Even on the dud material (the '78 Foxton songs, mostly), they're unstoppable. And it's fascinating to hear the '77 Jam race through covers like "Back In My Arms Again" that the '82 Jam would've finessed a bit.

His short, meticulously worked out guitar solos on Jam records were great though

In which I do my part to help The Jam and Style Council in America.

Came across some of these From The Jam videos recently and mike t-diva otm upthread, couldn't believe what I was seeing.

dud

Has there even been a Jam-related poll of any kind?

The Jam - Singles (1977-1982)

Thanks

In which I do my part to help The Jam and Style Council in America.

Very noice!

I listened to Sound Affects last night for the first time in nearly forever and was reminded, for the umpteenth time, that their run from All Mod Cons through The Gift was pretty unparalleled for the era. Weller's lyrics can come across sometimes as overstuffed, but that shortcoming is more than overcome by the sheer energy of the band. IMHO, their music has survived better than that of most of their contemporaries.

And props for rating "Ghosts" so highly. Amazing song.

"Ghosts" is great, but The Gift is frustrating. I understand that protocol in the UK was, to varying degrees, to not put singles on albums, but jeez, replace a couple of the meh tracks on The Gift with their 1981 singles, or "The Bitterest Pill," or "Beat Surrender," or "Shopping," or etc. etc. and you'd have possibly their greatest album. And why are the vocals buried in the mix on "Trans-Global Express"?

Agreed on the production of "Trans-Global Express," which is the song I would swap out for "Shopping." Not sure which other tracks I'd drop.

I’d definitely drop “Circus” (which sounds more like a b-side than their actual b-sides, but at least points in an intriguing new direction), and “The Planner’s Dream Gone Wrong.” “Beat Surrender” couldn’t have been included, since it was recorded after The Gift was released, and after they’d announced their split. But Weller was obviously able to come up with better songs than “Planner’s,” so why didn’t he? (He said something in the liner notes to Dig The New Breed like “wanted The Gift to be our best ever, ended up just OK. Oh well!”)

I remember that quote, along with his amusement at writing "That's Entertainment" after coming home "pissed from the pub" and its being hailed as his best yet.

Weller's voals are buried on "Trans-Global Express" but then again, So Is The Sun...