omnibus PRISM/NSA/free Edward Snowden/encryption tutorial thread

eh that's all true but that pew poll is all like "court orders" "everyone's gonna die waddaya think" & then is reported like everyone's fine with what's been going on

court orders for "millions of americans" still doesn't mean "me"

they asked two different questions. the 2006 question says "without court approval." i thought it was very bad then, and think it is bad now, but the fact that there was no fisa authorization under bush was significant then, and is significant now.

it's not that they were principled then but are hypocrites now. they were partisans then and remain so. maybe some of the democrats who disapproved then but approve now are finally following the mandate of their heart which thirsts for authoritarian repression but they disliked bush too much to express it earlier.

― Mordy , Tuesday, June 11, 2013 5:44 PM (56 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yes, this is why i posted it.

right the survey questions still assume a "trade off" b/t civil liberties and safety, replicating obama's own discourse

but i've yet to see any real evidence that this sort of wholesale disregard for constitutionally-protected liberties is actually preventing terrorism

ACLU sues

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/06/aclu-sues-four-top-obama-administration-officials-over-verizon-metadata-sharing/

glad I still write checks to them

my membership lapsed a while back - i should get back on that

yeah big up aclu

https://www.aclu.org/secure/setup-monthly-pledge?s_src=UNV130001C00&ms=web_menu_monthly

not "loyalty oath but a contract, & a less important one than the social contract a democracy has with its citizenry"
http://t.co/A7k13Egg11

yes

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/12/opinion/surveillance-a-threat-to-democracy.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/12/opinion/surveillance-snowden-doesnt-rise-to-traitor.html

Dirty Bomb Blows Liberty (from WSJ)

Last week, the Guardian newspaper reported that the National Security Agency collected phone records on millions of Verizon customers, and the Obama administration defended the move. The Guardian and Washington Post also reported that the NSA has a top-secret operation, dubbed Prism, which taps directly into the servers of nine leading Internet companies. Does President Obama know something that Senator Obama did not? Or did the corrosion of our civil liberties take on a life of its own, independent of any elected leader?

It's as if a terrorist set off a dirty bomb that is slowly spreading tyranny instead of radiation.

Access to phone data allows government officials to track individuals. It reveals who is calling whom, from where and with what frequency. Thanks to data-crunching technology, it can discover networking patterns in seconds—ferreting out suspected terrorist cells, criminal organizations or maybe just some people the government doesn't like.

This is an administration with a taxing authority that has harassed politically opposed groups. It is an administration that wiretaps Associated Press and Fox News. Even the New York Times editorial board says President Obama "has lost all credibility."

Maybe you still trust the current president, but will you trust the next one? Maybe you believe phone data will catch a terrorist today, but do you know how it will be used tomorrow?

"No one set of data ever stays by itself," Ian Glazer, a security and privacy expert for global technology adviser Gartner, said in a telephone interview. "This Verizon data will be combined with other data. And when you start combing…it becomes more tantalizing, and potentially more privacy invasive."

Some people aren't alarmed, noting they've got nothing to hide. But they're wrong to think it's normal for the government to monitor law-abiding citizens. "There's a reason why our toilets are not in our living rooms," Mr. Glazer said. "You're not doing anything wrong when you go to the bathroom, but it's still something you want to keep private.

that's a crappy analogy (see what I did there?) but otherwise otm

reminded me of public shitting in 1984

Has this been discussed? http://www.vanityfair.com/online/eichenwald/2013/06/obama-verizon-cell-phone

― they are either militarists (ugh) or kangaroos (?) (DJP), Tuesday, June 11, 2013 4:24 PM (Yesterday)

so...i think maybe all this talk of "privacy" is a red herring. i don't care that the government knows i called waterface's mom for ten minutes, or that they know i have a certain medical condition. i guess i'd rather they didn't, but ultimately it doesn't matter - i care that the government can use this information, where i was when i made the call, etc, against me in court without having to prove to a judge that there was probable cause for obtaining that information. that's what the 4th amendment is about; it's not about "privacy" in like, the personal everyday sense

nytimes editorial completely otm

This morning I caught a TV tuned to FOX news, and the chyron on the screen, over a shot of Google HQ, read: CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS/GOOGLE CEO MADE MORE THAN $70K IN DONATIONS. Turn to page 23 in the Outrage Handbook, FOX viewers -- corporations are no longer people and corporate money in politics is bad. Pages 14-18 are no longer operative.

the hypocrisy is really thick on "both sides."

all the obama-stan "liberals" are really showing their true colors over this. my partner briefly tuned into air america and she said it was all mocking and attacking snowden.

disgusted by the lack of independent thought on display.

out of curiosity how are they spinning this at MSNBC? (i don't have cable, and right now I am _very_ grateful for that)

curious to see what all of the ex-bush/obama officials have to say on the subject?

all the obama-stan "liberals" are really showing their true colors over this. my partner briefly tuned into air america and she said it was all mocking and attacking snowden.

For real. Pleased to some degree to see rookie I would have expected to line up in support are instead raising hell, but the number of liberals defending this shit is nauseating.

out of curiosity how are they spinning this at MSNBC?

Chris Hayes and Rachel Maddow support him, dunno about Mr. Thrill Going Up His Leg.

Check this out: http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/06/11/the-nsa-and-insurrectionists-vs-institutionalists/

I thought air America was defunct.

@DennisThePerrin
Obama liberals and Tea Party reactionaries are kissing cousins. The next generation is secured. #progress #USA

weird timing for that comment being that this is probably the best example yet of the far left and tea party being on the same side

Otm

tea partiers are the largest block in congress angry about this. i'm decidedly more, uh, hamiltonian about this than almost all of you but am still a little disgusted (and maybe shocked but i just got cable again so grain of salt) at how quickly this turned into 'what's yr take on edward snowden', so much for an honest debate on the security state. weigel had a thing today about the history of (generally failed) efforts at reducing overclassification: www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2013/06/edward_snowden_nsa_leaks_can_congress_get_the_executive_branch_to_declassify.html .

Monday was closer to "Edward Snowden: Hero or Traitor?" day on cable news, yesterday a lot better, can't wait for matters to deteriorate today.

I thought air America was defunct.

― Let's Talk Tech with Curr3n$y (Hunt3r), Wednesday, June 12, 2013 7:28 AM (43 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

oh well whatever it's the local "progressive" talk radio station w/ a lot of syndicated shows

my partner listens to it sometimes, i can't take more than 30 seconds

Finally, Alex and Chris Hayes discussed the public’s confusion over the surveillance issue as evidenced by a new Pew Research poll that shows Democrats and Republicans have essentially switched positions on the issue since Barack Obama replaced George W. Bush in the White House. In essence, members of the public appear more inclined to believe government surveillance was okay if it took place under the party to which they felt most closely aligned.

this point kind of contradicts the articles larger argument about insurrectionists (!!) vs. institutionalists

We are fine, no need to panic, this isn't 1984 yet

i think it's the more germane point, though

xpost

my partner briefly tuned into air america and she said it was all mocking and attacking snowden.

It would be interesting to know who these hosts are, since a lot of real ex-Air America hosts (Maddow, Sam Seder, Cenk) are praising this guy. But then there's Franken.

richard clarke - http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/worry-nsa-article-1.1369705

out of curiosity how are they spinning this at MSNBC?

Chris Hayes and Rachel Maddow support him, dunno about Mr. Thrill Going Up His Leg.

― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, June 12, 2013 7:25 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

support snowden or obama?

snowman

i feel like maybe kanye should postpone the release of his album just to drink this all in, you know

Snowden is actually Iceman in In The Loop.

i feel like maybe kanye should postpone the release of his album just to drink this all in, you know

who's the jackass now?

?

that's kanye responding to obama

Check this out: http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/06/11/the-nsa-and-insurrectionists-vs-institutionalists/

― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, June 12, 2013 12:26 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

reading digby calling herself an insurrectionist sort of made me lol

what the fuck is this shit

http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/11/us/nsa-snowden-girlfriend

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/130611165225-linsay-mills-story-body.jpg

In a post on her blog, Lindsay Mills -- who described herself as a "pole-dancing superhero" -- said she was typing on a "tear-streaked keyboard."

"For those of you that know me without my super hero cape, you can probably understand why I'll be refraining from blog posts for awhile. My world has opened and closed all at once. Leaving me lost at sea without a compass," she wrote Monday, a day after American and British newspapers published Snowden's identity as the source behind their reports on the U.S. surveillance programs.

Sounds like CNN taking the "lost at sea" stuff on the blog seriously

he gave up a $400k job and a stripper girlfriend just to protect our freedoms

Wolf Blitzer reporting live from Lindsay Mills' window

becoming an enemy of the state and fleeing to hong kong's always been on my list of ways to avoid the breakup conversation too