Magic: The Gathering C/D

yeah, I missed it one time and the dude pointed out that he shouldn't have to take damage, seemed a bit douchy to me, but I'm ok with it if that's the correct rule.

How does that work with timing? Can an opponent try to zip through their upkeep in an effort to miss the trigger?

I always wondered about this in regards to Pyreheart Wolf. Say my opponent attacks and don't announce the trigger. How much time can pass before I can single block?

if they immediately untap draw you can roll it back, but if 4 minutes later during their main phase you remember it's too late, I think, technically. but really in a casual environment I think remembering anytime during their turn should probably be accepted.

xp

they changed the missed trigger rule for competitive RELs back so that you don't have to announce the trigger anymore. it's still good etiquette to do so but mandatory triggers happen whether or not you announce them e.g. stab wound, obzedat, jace aot +1 (this was the most frustrating to announce). at casual events like store drafts, fnm &c that was never the rule, since those are meant for players who are still learning and/or more casual - although again announcing your triggers is often good etiquette/helps keep gamestates clear i think. so anyone claiming that your stab wound trigger or pyreheart wolf effects don't happen is wrong and you should call a judge

They've changed the rules about triggers like Pyreheart Wolf or Exalted. They don't need to be announced until they "matter". If I attack with my 3/3 exalted, you block with your 3/4, I can say my guy is 4/4 when it comes time for damage. But if I put my guy in the bin, then it's assumed the exalted trigger was missed. If you ask me how big my guy is before blocking, I have to say 3/3 or 4/4 and it's locked in from that point on.

So with Pyreheart Wolf, you don't need to announce the trigger at all. Once your opponent tries to block, you can say that they need to block with multiple creatures. This is how I understand it, they've fiddled with these rules a ton over the last couple years so I'm not 100% sure.

uh yeah what Lamp said

okay, good to hear that. I think those trigger rules were well-intentioned but they really wound up screwing more than they helped (IMO, of course)

i think there are always situations where stuff like announcing triggers can be manipulated to help you. i remember at pt gatecrash sam black tricked someone into chump blocking by choosing not to announce an exalted trigger. this was not long after the rules had changed again so it's easy to understand why his opponent missed the trigger, since he was used to his opponent needing to remind him but i think that's pretty fair - you're responsible for maintaining/understanding gamestates and that seemed like a fair thing to do, at least at the pt level.

huh, interesting. I was aware that the rule changed several times, but never had a good handle on what it has been at any given time.

wait what happens if say, two turns later you're like 'oh crap, one thousand lashes was supposed to hit you twice, I should win now'

One Thousand Lashes is a little different because it "matters" immediately, the life total update has an immediate effect. So I think once you move to draw, assuming you've given them some time to announce the trigger, it's missed.

iirc one thousand lashes isn't a may so it happens regardless - if your opponent is arguing that you've 'missed the trigger' because you forgot to remind him i'd call a judge. esp because afaik at casual RELs the rules always said that gamestates can be corrected to reflect missed triggers. since the fix to get the gamestate here is reasonably simply you'd just subtract two life from your opponent and move on. at higher RELs i think you would both get warnings

So basically that dude last night was just being a dick and a sore loser. He completely ripped me apart last week with a deck that had Frontline Medic, Collective Blessing, Trostani's Summoner, Pontiff of Blight, various other rares and bloodrush dudes, so it was pretty amusing to see him get all huffy over a missed point of damage. Also was amusing to have him drop Trostani's Summoner on me again this week only to immediately lose his rhino to Auger Spree.

http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/233

i believe this is the most recent missed trigger rules update:

At Regular REL, there are really only two "rules." You aren't allowed to miss your own triggered abilities, and your opponent isn't required to remind you about them. The second one is a change that was put in at higher RELs a few months ago. Please note that this part applies only to triggered abilities. You can't ignore rules violations. Now, your responsibilities as the opponent are the same across different types of tournaments. If a triggered ability is forgotten (or any other game error is made) and the error is discovered later, players should alert the judge. The judge will try and fix the error if possible and, if not, the game will just continue. Regular REL is all about fun and providing a casual environment where players of all skill levels and experience levels can have a good time, so missing a triggered ability isn't punished too harshly.

fwiw at higher RELs you do have to announce one thousand lashes life loss on upkeep the first time it happens or its considered missed

i thought that's why we've seen a big increase in "you may" effects over the last 5 years, but stuff like Stab Wound really doesn't read well that way

my gripe with magic players w/r/t this is usually during prereleases, where it's 2:30 AM and everyone's tired and a little drunk, playing with cards they've never seen before. you gotta give some leeway there

also arguing about this sort of thing is infuriating as most Magic players give you a dozen variants of "how hard is it to remember your damn triggers"

According to that same article (which I was just refreshing myself on too), it looks like you can't get an infraction (is that the same thing as a warning?) if you don't point out your opponent's One Thousand Lashes at any level. Man this game is complicated

The last dozen or so posts pretty much prove that the rule is confusing at best

haha - i think its partly confusing because back in the hazy halcyon days of october 2012 they changed the missed trigger rules around to the announce all triggers version which people really hated

it looks like you can't get an infraction (is that the same thing as a warning?) if you don't point out your opponent's One Thousand Lashes at any level

yeah i forgot that had changed - i think you get a warning before you get an infraction but i'm not sure/too lazy to google

soooo the 11th anniversary phantom sealeds?

also cider if you were playing in a standard ptq this weekend would you play your RUG list?

they look awesome! I was hoping the April Fools events would lead to things like this.

looks like Beta spotlight for the next few days. nix tix drafts are quite nice but the downside is all bots are busted. hope you got packs already!

anyone wanna draft MM with me on cockatrice?

did some MM drafts. i drafted storm and went 3-1, no real highlights from that deck except i had a lot of card draw and cryptic command and i think i got reasonably likely to be able warren for the win a bunch. my second draft i opened a foil life from the loam p1p1 and i decided to commit - don't think it was the best idea partic because i have never played with dredge before at all and probably made some poor draft and play choices. anyway heres my dredge deck:

hana kami
raven's crime x2
executioner's capsule

narcomeba x 2
life from the loam
death denied
search for tomorrow

citanul woodreaders
stinkweed imp x 2
moldervine cloak
sword of fire and ice
syphon life x 2

greater mossdog x 3
penumbra spider

giant dustwing
giant dustwing
wurm harvest

darkmoor salvage
some number of swamps, forests and islands

i went 2-2 and i felt like my deck really struggled to win - four of my games came from sword of fire & ice the other two from life from the loam turn two. any game i didn't draw life i lost. curious what anyone else thought because dredge was really fun to play when it worked, but it felt really fragile. but i can't think of how much better my draft could've gone in terms of getting the right pieces.

Dredge in Ravnica wasn't really a deck IIRC - if you had a lot of dredge cards, you had better card selection, but it's not really a linear mechanic like Robots or Rebels. (Kind of like Scavenge too.) So I was skeptical of Dredge being a deck in MM. Worm Harvest is the only card in your list that really rewards loading up on Dredge. The Hana Kami/Death Denied combo is cool, but you have to draw one half of it (which is unlikely, since you want to Dredge every turn) and it's such a long-game reward. I agree with you, your deck looks like it has all the pieces it needs, but lots of Dredge just isn't the broken deck that lots of Affinity or whatev is.

oops i was away for the week, but Lamp i'd probably be comfortable playing that deck in a ptq. it needs a bit of work but i think as is it's close enough to jund, a proven good deck, that it can't be much worse and yet you get some 'rogue deck equity' still especially with staticaster.

i slept in instead but i would've played 4-color reanimator

i really like the 4c reanimator deck on principle but haven't actually tried playing it

my burn at the stake friends think that the m14 spoiled card Young Pyromancer is going to make the deck actually good in standard and not just a second-rate gimmick deck like it's been

obviously take that with grain of salt etc but i will be putting in some work on this one next month

really hate that art, it's like borderline anime

tonight:

(foil) aetherling
boros battleshaper
hypersonic dragon
assemble the legion
thoughtflare
holy mantle
detention sphere
turn/burn
2 skynight legionnaire
skyjek
bomber corps
steeple roc
maze glider
pursuit of flight
tower drake
sunspire gatekeepers
sage's row denizen
doorkeeper
swift justice
boros cluestone

sacred foundry
steam vents
azorius guildgate
2 izzet guildgate
boros guildgate

2-0, 2-0, 2-0...never played aetherling :(

just had another aetherling failure, the card just will not do anything for me in limited. it gets stuck in my hand or i have to play it on 6 to block and it gets killed. i officially retract anything i said about it being as good as pack rat

have you been drafting mma at all?

nope, haven't touched it yet

it's kind of pricey and i'm still having fun with DGR so i don't know if i will, even though it seems to have a good chunk of my favorite cards from MD5/kamigawa/TSP limited

i thought it was fun, i've done a fair number now and the interest is starting to wane but i'm glad i did a few. might do a few more of the 64-mans but otherwise i think i'm over it. i get kinda tired of cube when its available as well and am happy to have not lost tickets on it. i think dgm is the more interesting format tbh

Incidentally I dunno if you guys speculate at all but DGM/GTC/RTR boosters online have all fallen by 10%+ in the rush to sell for MMA, feel like picking up RTR now is very close to a sure thing considering prize structures and how good/enduring the DGR format is.

yeah DGM boosters are down to something ridiculous like 2 tix, even with the new redemption fees it'd be unprecedented for a set with a $40 card to stay that low

modern masters looks kind of like eating candy or whatever, it grabs a bunch of the weird fringe archetypes that gave those old formats their depth and replay value and pushes them all front and center so they'll stop being something special you can only do once every 10 drafts

this is my main issue with it i guess, i don't want to be enabled to draft spider spawning or dampen thought every time because they'll lose their novelty fast and once the novelty is gone they're not actually that rewarding to play

otoh I don't think Modern Masters was meant to be drafted more than a few times. I'd love to do a draft at the game store but don't have much of an inclanation to do it on MTGO.

gp vegas having well over 3000 people preregistered already is pretty nuts

also makes the prize structure look embarrassing but they can't really do anything about that due to gambling laws etc

I was wondering if this would be the first GP where they would run out of product. At Charlotte, they had to send someone on a run to the SCG physical store the night before to get more product, which isn't that short a drive - they must have needed a lot. And MM is probably is shorter supply.

the TO already said that he's got product for 6000 players and a backup plan to get more if it breaks 6000 which won't happen

6000 person gp seems awful

its gonna be like 3600 probably i think

did you guys end up playing in gp providence?

Nice to know they've got it covered. I did play in Providence, my account of it is somewhere in this maze of a thread.

lamp do you have anything good for standard right now? (or anyone else here who plays competitive standard) like if you were playing a ptq this weekend what would you run?

i picked up aristocrats last night and played like 10 matches with it and it felt alright but i'm not sure if i'm going to stick with it. i definitely like the blasphemous act/boros reckoner version better than the new GWB one though