DRUMMERS: Advice for a beginner

it's an obvious joke but this would be such a badass and nerdy choice:
http://i.imgur.com/LZUDIQd.jpg

now you have to make the crucial life decision: heel up or heel down?

Pearl actually makes a bouncy throne: http://pearldrum.com/products/hardware/drum-thrones/d-1000spn/

Dunno how much you can adjust the bounce/give, though. I tried it once but found it really disconcerting.

Latest revive of this thread is the awesomest news!!!!!

Almost as urgent as a throne: you need a placard that reads YOU JUST HIRED THE HITMAKER

Woo, great revive! I started some drumming last week when I was round at my father-in-law's. Completely impossible to do a fill and land back on your feet afaict. But it's so much fun. (It was the Daft Punk album gave me the idea btw)

I'm not being as self-indulgent and buying like you, LL, though I am contemplating how I might be able to manipulate his otherwise-unused kit into making its way to my house.

I miss my drumset :(

You said you managed a basic 4/4 beat but...how I was initially taught by my friend and how I get others going on the "mother beat" is: hit (closed) hi-hat 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4, hit kick drum 1 . . . 1 . . . 1 . . .
once you got a handle on that, add snare . . 3 . . . 3 . . . 3 .
get that down so you can do it w/o thinking. every other beat is a variation of that m/l

yeah that's what i did
i don't know what it's called so i was totally guessing

i started super slow and then got faster and faster til i felt like jaki (i did not sound like jaki)

Gr8 thread.
A drummer friend tells me that AC/DC are a good band to play along with when you are starting out because the beats are pretty simple and solid but have enough swing to make them fun to copy.

AC/DC and New Order, actually. Haven't touched drums in a few years, but I always found a lot of fun and ideas playing straight 4/4 robot beats. You build up strength and patience and a great sense of time, which never really goes away when you start to do other stuff.

Awesome LL!

FWIW since you're setting up on what looks like a cement floor, my advice would be to find a section of remainder carpet you can put on your floor to keep your kit from sliding/bouncing around.

Also, to keep the bass drum from creeping away, loop a rope around the back of your throne, tying each end to opposite sides/lugs on the batter side of the bass drum. Granted, your whole kit might slide forward, but at least you'll go with it.

Did you stuff a pillow in the bass drum? You should, especially in that room. Plus, it does take some trial and error, but drums do need to be tuned, to an extent.

ok here is the full set up
got a throne and a blanket/piece of carpet
have not strapped myself into the mothership yet today but that's kind of what it feels like -- if i make enough noise, and just the right kind, it may lift off

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3781/9056659755_7a2c31dc2a.jpg

i thought about it as soon as i woke up this morning and was still kind of like whoa i have DRUMS in my BASEMENT?! i've wanted this for so long. this has already been a good lesson in not being a chicken.

as for tuning, i'll prob need some help with that so i'll get to it when i get to it yknow?
oh, a pillow -- can i stuff an old sheet in there or does it have to be a pillow? i don't have any extras.

Folded up sheet is fine. Just something to dampen it a bit, or your bass drum might sound like a big flappy gong.

Also, there is no right or wrong, ultimately, but it looks like you have your toms swapped. Drums usually progress in size from smallest to largest from left to right, if you're playing right handed, though to be honest mixing some things up can lead to cool results.

That's how Kenny Aronoff's kit is set up, iirc.

i'm left handed!
i also tried the hand crossover and prefer to just use lefty for hi hat
also my left leg seems to be completely useless

hmm, that's a tricky situation, though! a few drummer mix things up a little bit with the toms, but generally the toms go in order from highest to lowest pitched. you could consider just taking out the middle tom (i know that's probably not a realistic option since you just started playing and want to play with ALL the toms!) and keeping the floor tom and high tom. when i first started out i had a mammoth, double bass drum, 8-tom kit from the early 1980s. gradually over the years i downsized until i just had two toms. in the future i will only have one drumstick and a piece of cardboard

Looks like we have the same kit!

update:

one of my dogs HATES the drum set, hates hearing me play it, and barks pretty much nonstop while i'm playing. i have learned to ignore him but honestly i really really wish he would stfu
i tried to play danger bird and it was pretty easy (also i <3 ralph molina), but uuuuuuggghhh so slow! so far the most fun has occurred when i start to play the one beat i know, then speed up, then take little solo breaks on the other drums/cymbals and then go right back into the repetitive part. it feels like i am actually playing?! i can only sustain it for so long though because the dog is driving me nuts.

also is there a name for that little shift into mental space-out that happens when you stop thinking too hard about what you're doing with your arms and legs and you just do it? i've only felt that dancing, not making noise. it's sooooo cool when it happens and i am also making noise. new thing for me.

xp SISTERS

XP - Creating muscle memory for a part, is how I would describe it (I play bass, so it's maybe a bit different)

Muscle memory was what I first thought, though to be honest it sounds just as much like "getting in the zone" from LL's account.

Yeah, getting inside the music, inside the song.

Not to sound like a martian, but is that (inside __________) a widely-used term? I like it.

good news: I think I can play Love Vigilantes now!
bad news: if my dog doesn't stfu soon and leave me alone (now he is coming over and putting his paw on me, like begging me to stop) he is going into the slammer (his crate)

being inside the song or getting in the zone is a great feeling, and you'll find that as you play more, it becomes more of the default feeling. there's this wonderful tipping point that occurs where you no longer have to "think" while doing fills or shifting beats or improvising. i mean, you're still thinking of course, but it's more of a higher-order abstract guidance kind of thinking - like, "what kind of feeling do i want to create next" - rather than counting subdivisions and trying to make sure you land back on the beat.

"playing in the pocket"

(h8 that term kinda)

pocket?

the whole phrase

playing in the pocket is kinda different, since it refers to the actual "groove" and sound, and the timing of playing along with others in a band. when i think of playing in the pocket i think of al jackson jr on love and happiness:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPHGp2DHqSI

although getting in the zone/getting inside the song/etc can definitely line up with playing in the pocket, it can just also be more about a mindset and less about timing. for example, i'm sure a lot of free jazz and spiritual jazz were waaaaaaaaaaaaay in the zone while they were playing, but you wouldn't put on ornette coleman and look for the drummer to be playing in the pocket.

phil ochsymuzak (roxymuzak) wrote this on thread Ask a Hoos. on board 1 pWN 3v3Ry+h1n G!!!1 on May 24, 2009

So we were driving back from Baltimore early this morning and Hoos is like:

"When I first moved in to my new apartment, my roommate and I were listening to some music, and I was like 'Man, he's really goin' in," and my roommate was like, 'you mean going off?' and I thought, wow, we are really not going to get along."

Hahaha

xpost

whoa, i never realized that it's NOT al jackson jr on love and happiness (the song)!!

He never cut his ties completely with the Hi label, though. He was still the drummer of choice years later. If he was out on the road with Booker T and the MG’s or otherwise tied up at Stax, Mitchell would call Howard Grimes, a onetime student of Jackson’s who would establish himself soon as the “other” top drummer in Memphis. When Jackson was available, Grimes was still brought in sometimes, and the two were paired, usually with Jackson on traps and Grimes on congas. This combination of kit and percussion, never attempted at Stax, became integral to the sound that Al Green laid down on his early hits at Hi.

from an article that bizarrely uses the header Snap! to break up the sections:

“Usually I’d have Al play those sessions by himself,” Mitchell says. “Sometimes I’d play the conga drum with him, on things like ’Let’s Stay Together.’ But there were times that Al Jackson couldn’t get the feel I wanted, on songs like ’Take Me To The River’ or ’Love & Happiness,’ so I had Howard come in for that. Now, Al could actually play anything … but he couldn’t play it raggedy. And when that’s what I wanted to have, I called Howard.”

http://www.drummagazine.com/features/post/al-jackson-jr.-the-sound-of-60s-soul/

Weird, I assumed it was Jackson too!

Also, ZS otm itt.

i love this! if you want i can give you a lesson next time i'm in town.

You're on!! Lemme know when you're coming, you have my email!!

Progress update: I have my ipod shuffle loaded with all of the songs that I know the best, songs I could sing with absentmindedly and are also probably easy enough to try out. I listen to it while I'm walking (to the post office, wherever) and when a song sounds like I could maybe play it, I note it mentally and then try to play it the next time.

This list is getting out of control. Apparently every song I decided was maybe easy enough to play was actually more or less easy enough to play a little bit of, not ever really the whole thing through. I thought it would be nice to know what it feels like to play a short song, you know, how long is that? 3-5 min? Anyway, I decided to focus on one to try to play through all the way and learn, basically, until i could play it confidently at will. a little focused project.

-----> I have 2 pedagogy questions --

1) Is this a bad idea? Should I focus on getting different basic rhythms before I focus on endurance/structure?
2) If I do this, will my brain fossilize on that song if I don't have a strong foundation in the feel/comfort of different rhythms?

This may be obvious stuff, I have no idea. When someone says "take lessons" my first question is "does this teacher's methodology work with my learning style" -- for me, this totally new learning process is almost as interesting as what i'm trying to learn how to do. almost.

i will also note, totally objectively, that i am not solid on the 1-2 things i think i can do at this point. there were multiple moments that i thought i was doing something different and honestly couldn't tell whether it was the same beat i had been playing all along or not. in case you were starting to think i had some delusion of grandeur.

i don't think there's any problem with playing along to songs before you have the basics down or that you have to do it in a specific order. the only problem would be if you're physically forcing things that you can't do yet (like tensing up to play fast for a long time), then you run the risk of hurting yourself. especially at, um, our age.

but other than that i think both methods build on each other. practicing rudiments and independence by themselves can be boring (but necessary), and playing along with songs helps your time & sense of form, and well as showing you what you want/need to learn.

also youtube can be your friend.

1) Is this a bad idea? Should I focus on getting different basic rhythms before I focus on endurance/structure?

Not at all. In fact, this is probably the best approach. When I started playing along to records, when I got to parts that were too complicated I'd try to play a simplified version of it, because it was less about learning the technical aspects and more about finding out where you/the drums fit into the song (and not stopping/losing your place).

2) If I do this, will my brain fossilize on that song if I don't have a strong foundation in the feel/comfort of different rhythms?

I doubt it, but it probably couldn't hurt to jump around to different songs, maybe keep it to a small handful.

The thing about lessons can be really valuable in terms of learning how to maximize efficiency of motion (and avoid tendonitis), but can be a bummer if the teacher really digs Toto.

Also what Jordan said.

As far as I'm concerned, when you're starting out, just steadily going "R L R L R L" to the beat of a song for the entire song is as good practice as anything. In fact even until recently (when I more or less stopped playing drums) I still did stuff like that to practice or warm up.

Learning styles: I've been learning piano too, and started out with best of intentions to learn to read music, practise scales, etc. But of course I end up doing what I always do, learn a few chords and try to understand basic structure, and noodle around from there.

I imagine I'll try something similar with drumming, once I work out what the equivalents might be.

(when I more or less stopped playing drums)

:(

i'm an attorney with a 16-month-old living in an apartment, makes it tough

i'm ok with our age, no hard feelings! i am friendly with youtube and have explored some of my options, which is partially why i bring up pedagogy. are there prevailing models i could read about? i just don't even know where to look. i know there's no "doing it wrong" or whatever, but i def don't want to hurt myself (physically) or risk future chances at improvement because i started poorly. you know, like develop a learning injury or something. you guys are all giving good advice and i thank you for the straight-talking expertise.

btw i am not playing crazy loud or fast or anything, i'm just kinda galumphing along at a mid tempo. i also think i need to do something to the snare. it sounds boomier than it should.

(and not stopping/losing your place).
happens all the time, feels like an electric shock with the no-rhythm stick

as for developing basic coordination, i feel like i am surprisingly good at that. if there's anywhere that my dance background helps me, it's recognizing the different parts of a rhythm. i've never really had any trouble "finding" the beat in my life -- reproducing it with sound? That's new to me.

i also think i need to do something to the snare. it sounds boomier than it should.

lol, does it sound like "bom bom bom" instead of "crack crack crack"? Or rather, are the wires on the bottom head loose instead of taut?