Hersh: US planning to nuke Iran for real

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(or today is monday, gah -- editing daily news copy totally messes with my sense of the calendar)

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Monday, 10 April 2006 16:23 (eighteen years ago) link

I must agree with Klugman on this. Bush only takes advice that agrees with his already formed position. It doesn't matter if ten hundred experts who actually know something about the matter are anguishedly howling "NOOOOOOO!"

― Aimless (Aimless), Monday, 10 April 2006 16:48 (eighteen years ago) link

Anybody remember the address of that blog that reposts Krugman columns for the Times Select-impaired?

― o. nate (onate), Monday, 10 April 2006 16:59 (eighteen years ago) link

i don't think it does it any more

― Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 10 April 2006 17:00 (eighteen years ago) link

you know, i lived outside the US for most of the last, oh, fifteen years. i've been back not even a year and it still feels like a different place. and america just doesn't have any easy immigration options... :(

― someone let this mitya out! (mitya), Monday, 10 April 2006 17:51 (eighteen years ago) link

err, "emigration"

― someone let this mitya out! (mitya), Monday, 10 April 2006 17:51 (eighteen years ago) link

how does it feel different?

― Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 10 April 2006 17:54 (eighteen years ago) link

Klugman?....aaaargh! Krugman.

― Aimless (Aimless), Monday, 10 April 2006 18:00 (eighteen years ago) link

I doubt we're touching Iran. Hersh's Pentagon sources leaked the info so that Iran will know WE'RE BEING SERIOUS, WHOA NELLY!

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Monday, 10 April 2006 18:02 (eighteen years ago) link

i thought the same thing, alfred

― Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 10 April 2006 18:06 (eighteen years ago) link

This is a tempting thought, but wait a bit. This only works if Iran accepts this as not being a transparent bluff. Saddam received a thousand warnings that Bush would invade, but heeded none of them for reasons of his own.

At some point, even if this was floated as a bluff, there has to be some core of truth in it, and that core of obstinance can easily take on a life of its own. If push comes to shove, Bush would order nukes on Iran. Don't doubt it. OTOH, Iran recently fought a very bloody war with Iraq where they lost something like 800,000 dead. They won't be bluffed all that easily.

― Aimless (Aimless), Monday, 10 April 2006 18:10 (eighteen years ago) link

How does it feel different?

Well, obviously much may relate to more localized changes and me just getting older, but the two things I feel most keenly are a) personalization of politics and b) the nationalist/religious tint of the country. People seem to have much more difficulty having any kind of civilized political discussion. "Democrats" see "Republicans" as fascists, "conservatives" see "liberals" as traitors, etc. etc. Facts that don't agree with your point of view are discarded almost immediately as spin or fabrication by the other side. _Everything_ that appears in the media is a "lie," leaving most people essentially to convince themselves based on inchoate impressions.

Not incredibly sophisticated analysis, and obviously something that has been going on to some degree for 30+ years.

that core of obstinance can easily take on a life of its own

I agree with this, but look how long it took for that obstinance to get the US back into Iraq. Unless Teheran starts taking really overt steps, Bush will be long gone before this problem really gains legs.

― someone let this mitya out! (mitya), Monday, 10 April 2006 18:44 (eighteen years ago) link

I thought this thread said "Hesch" at first.

― Dan (Sealab Gets Topical!) Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 10 April 2006 18:50 (eighteen years ago) link

further to my point above, see this also thread: "Christians Sue for Right Not to Tolerate Policies"

― someone let this mitya out! (mitya), Monday, 10 April 2006 18:53 (eighteen years ago) link

look how long it took for that obstinance to get the US back into Iraq

i dunno if this is rhetorical but it took bush only two years from after his inauguration, and a year & a half after 9/11

― +-+-++-++, Monday, 10 April 2006 18:55 (eighteen years ago) link

and really only like 8 months of making noise about war in iraq

― +-++--++, Monday, 10 April 2006 18:58 (eighteen years ago) link

the first thing that flashed through my mind when 9/11 happened was "oh shit, we're going to invade Iraq". I'm sure Dubya had been fantasizing about invading ever since Poppy couldn't catch Sadaam the first time.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 10 April 2006 19:00 (eighteen years ago) link

i would argue that without 9/11 the iraq war never would have happened. but the point is he had the ten years 1991-2001 to point back to. given that this administration "prioritized" iraq (and lost credibility after being "wrong") no one is going to let him step on the gas that quickly this time.

― someone let this mitya out! (mitya), Monday, 10 April 2006 19:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Hmm. The first thing that flashed through my mind was "Oh no, all of those people!"

― Dan (Different Strokes, Etc) Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 10 April 2006 19:01 (eighteen years ago) link

on the other hand, if they hadn't screwed up the post-war so badly in Iraq, both Dubya and US citizens would probably be ready to move on Iran now.

― someone let this mitya out! (mitya), Monday, 10 April 2006 19:02 (eighteen years ago) link

that was pretty cheap dan

― --+-+-++++-+, Monday, 10 April 2006 19:04 (eighteen years ago) link

I have no faith that any elected official will successfully stop Dubya from bombing whoever he wants.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 10 April 2006 19:04 (eighteen years ago) link

that was pretty cheap dan

Oh, I know.

― Dan (Couldn't Stop Myself) Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 10 April 2006 19:05 (eighteen years ago) link

i think its pretty fair to worry a recent tragedy which claimed 2,800 lives causing a future tragedy which will claim 100,000 lives

― -++-+-+, Monday, 10 April 2006 19:06 (eighteen years ago) link

Yes, that is fair.

― Dan (... Where Are You Going With This?) Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 10 April 2006 19:11 (eighteen years ago) link

continuing my policy of being an incomprehensible ass on ile today?

― -+++-+--+, Monday, 10 April 2006 19:16 (eighteen years ago) link

I remember sitting around my apartment around 2000 during one of the many no-fly zone retaliatory bombings (Americans taking out anti-aircraft weapons) against Iraq thinking about how it was just a matter of time. Some American administration was bound to invade Iraq eventually, given the ongoing line of thinking.

Iran's somewhat different in that we don't have quite the same public-facing ongoing campaign and it's been rhetoric so far...

― mike h. (mike h.), Monday, 10 April 2006 19:23 (eighteen years ago) link

it's interesting that the iranian reaction to this has been dismissive. which was also how they reacted to the hersh story last year saying there were american special forces teams already scouting things out in iran. i think it means they're reading all of this as scare tactics, and they don't wanna look scared.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Monday, 10 April 2006 19:32 (eighteen years ago) link

here's a pretty sparse wikipedia entry on part of the US's glorious efforts in iranian politics to date - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAVAK

― Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 10 April 2006 19:34 (eighteen years ago) link

and what a wonderfully successful series of coherent and forward-thinking policies it has been...

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 10 April 2006 19:38 (eighteen years ago) link

All Cheney really needs is one nuked US city to get things rolling his way.

Let's have fun--list all the reasons Cheney wouldn't allow this:

― Grey, Ian (IanBrooklyn), Monday, 10 April 2006 19:44 (eighteen years ago) link

1) harry whittington stands in front of a tank

― +-+--+-++, Monday, 10 April 2006 19:46 (eighteen years ago) link

the reasons Cheney wouldn't allow a US city to be nuked? I can only think of one ("too close to undisclosed location")

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 10 April 2006 19:46 (eighteen years ago) link

3) Damage to corporate assets

― Fight the Real Enemy -- Tasti D-Lite (ex machina), Monday, 10 April 2006 19:48 (eighteen years ago) link

4) potential for interruption of steady supply of fresh, nutritious human babies

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 10 April 2006 19:54 (eighteen years ago) link

also possible transplant hearts

― +--++-+-+-, Monday, 10 April 2006 19:55 (eighteen years ago) link

'mr cheney, im sorry but, well, i dont know how to say it, im afraid the only heart with the same AB+++ bloodtype as yours was... in detroit... when the bomb dropped....'

'noooooo!!!!'

― -++--+-+-, Monday, 10 April 2006 19:57 (eighteen years ago) link

just another day... in the twilight zone...

― +++-+-+--, Monday, 10 April 2006 19:57 (eighteen years ago) link

oh shit its 5:00!!!!!!! p34c3 suck4z

― -++-+-+-, Monday, 10 April 2006 19:59 (eighteen years ago) link

two months pass...

good ol' Sy Hersh, source of so many nightmares

― kingfish du lac (kingfish 2.0), Wednesday, 5 July 2006 22:23 (seventeen years ago) link

and the nightmare of unnamed sources

― don weiner (don weiner), Thursday, 6 July 2006 01:58 (seventeen years ago) link

one month passes...

Cheeky! (Ahmadinejad calls for a live TV debate with Bush)

― StanM (StanM), Tuesday, 29 August 2006 12:07 (seventeen years ago) link

Ahmadinejad blamed "special concessions" granted to the United States and Britain as "the root cause of all the problems in the world."

Too strong.

"At the Security Council, where they have to protect security, they enjoy the veto right. If anybody confronts them, there is no place to take complaints to."

Whether we like it or not, Mahmoud OTM.

― StanM (StanM), Tuesday, 29 August 2006 12:19 (seventeen years ago) link

twelve years pass...

"Pompeo Blames"
"U.S. Claims"
"President Is Forced"
The educated class are the most indoctrinated, their warped minds trying to sell yet another war. Feral beasts baying in material comfort. pic.twitter.com/pAY7zSEu9a
— Dennis Perrin (@DennisThePerrin) June 14, 2019

― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 14 June 2019 17:13 (four years ago) link

"president is forced to pick his strategy"

well, that should go well

― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 14 June 2019 20:29 (four years ago) link

What's wrong with 'Pompeo Blames' and 'US Claims'?

― Frederik B, Sunday, 16 June 2019 13:01 (four years ago) link

'indeed!'

― anvil, Sunday, 16 June 2019 13:02 (four years ago) link

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