Orson Welles

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I'm watching F for Fake right now. it's really great, slurry and embarrassing and overcooked, and the art = lying conceit, well: no shit. i can't for the life of me imagine what the original venue or reception of this was supposed to be! it's like welles said: "i will make a shitty documentary that will blow minds when broadcast on the late night television of a compressed and unhappy future" it feels like it's been on for six hours; i could watch it for another twelve.

g e o f f (gcannon), Sunday, 15 May 2005 08:29 (eighteen years ago) link

mmm, yes...they're even BETTER when you're dead!

(uh, x-post by about a year and a half)

joseph (joseph), Monday, 16 May 2005 03:53 (eighteen years ago) link

'F for Fake' is super awesome, I imagine you're watching the new Criterion edition of the film? Make sure you check out the extras on disc 2, specifically 'One Man Band'. I taped that off of BBC telly around '95 and was totally mesmerized by it. When I bought the Criterion discs the liner notes hinted that 'One Man Band' was modeled after 'F for Fake' in that it was full of trickery and outright lies. Watching it again now on the DVD, I can now see (some of) the lies, but the sheer genius of the man can not be denied. And hats off to Oja Kodar for making a film that does him justice.

retort pouch (retort pouch), Monday, 16 May 2005 04:18 (eighteen years ago) link

I love F For Fake. The first cinematic blog?

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 16 May 2005 06:01 (eighteen years ago) link

wait...F for Fake is on DVD now? i specifically wrote criterion about this last year and they said they had no plans of working their magic on that one and i ended up just buying it on VHS. those lying bastards...

waxyjax (waxyjax), Monday, 16 May 2005 07:16 (eighteen years ago) link

Any sign of The Immortal Story coming out on DVD?

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 16 May 2005 07:24 (eighteen years ago) link

the Criterion Fake is about the most scrumptious thing imaginable. I watched nearly all of it the other night while fighting a head cold, it was PERFECT.

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Monday, 16 May 2005 07:36 (eighteen years ago) link

Any sign of The Immortal Story coming out on DVD?

Not that I know of, but Turner Classic Movies is showing the film THIS WEDNESDAY (May 18th) at 11:30pm Eastern.

Either get your VCR ready or find someone who has TCM.

Eric von H. (Eric H.), Monday, 16 May 2005 16:10 (eighteen years ago) link

the Criterion Fake is about the most scrumptious thing imaginable.

! I must get this.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 16 May 2005 16:13 (eighteen years ago) link

Between L'Eclisse and F for Fake, Criterion have been covering some heavily coveted bases this year for me. What's next, I have to wonder: a Marcel L'Herbier box set?

Eric von H. (Eric H.), Monday, 16 May 2005 16:17 (eighteen years ago) link

His best film, at least post-RKO, might be "Othello."

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 16 May 2005 16:36 (eighteen years ago) link

Saw F for Fake last night on IFC and holy fucking fuck, the man out-Godarded Godard.

Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Monday, 16 May 2005 16:59 (eighteen years ago) link

Oh, Orson.

retort pouch (retort pouch), Monday, 16 May 2005 18:27 (eighteen years ago) link

fermented in the bottle

The Sensational Sulk (sexyDancer), Monday, 16 May 2005 18:39 (eighteen years ago) link

Oh, Orson: Part 2.

(Does his "sellout" material need any defense anymore? It's all priceless.)

Eric von H. (Eric H.), Monday, 16 May 2005 18:48 (eighteen years ago) link

Genius, that last one. "What is it you want, in the depths of your ignorance?"

slightly more subdued (kenan), Monday, 16 May 2005 18:59 (eighteen years ago) link

Get ready. Criterion's working on Mr. Arkadin and it's rumored to include something like 3-4 diff. versions of the film.

I wish someone would get on Falstaff/Chimes At Midnight quick. That's a great, great Welles film.

Jay Vee (Manon_70), Monday, 16 May 2005 19:03 (eighteen years ago) link

I Tivo'd F is for Fake yesterday and will check it out this week.

Does anyone remember when Orson Welles was on Moonlighting?

Scott CE (Scott CE), Monday, 16 May 2005 19:07 (eighteen years ago) link

I do!

slightly more subdued (kenan), Monday, 16 May 2005 19:08 (eighteen years ago) link

Criterion's working on Mr. Arkadin and it's rumored to include something like 3-4 diff. versions of the film.

Last I saw on Wellesnet, Rosenbaum was expressing disappointment that this wasn't the case. (Of course, that was months ago.)

Eric von H. (Eric H.), Monday, 16 May 2005 19:12 (eighteen years ago) link

Or maybe it was Rosenbaum who was assauging someone else who claimed this wasn't the case. I dunno. Chasing down info on upcoming Criterion releases is stultifyingly annoying.

Eric von H. (Eric H.), Monday, 16 May 2005 19:13 (eighteen years ago) link

i saw this on IFC (at what? 2 am?) which was running this "Z Channel weekend" thing, in tribute to an early cable cinephile network that I had never heard of; the doc on THAT was itself really interesting, 70s cokehead rebel hollywood stuff. they were playing all kinds of movies that would have been/were broadcast on it.

g e o f f (gcannon), Monday, 16 May 2005 19:31 (eighteen years ago) link

Did Anyone Else See This IFC Doc on the Z-channel?

Eric von H. (Eric H.), Monday, 16 May 2005 19:37 (eighteen years ago) link

i REALLY need to see "f for fake." actually i am way behind on welles in general. i think all i've seen is kane, touch of evil, lady from shanghai (which is awesome), othello, and... i think that might be it. no, i've never seen ambersons.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Monday, 16 May 2005 23:50 (eighteen years ago) link

i really wish "chimes at midnight" were easier to see.

i was reading recently about how as soon as those really bombastic deep-focus shots became identified as "wellesian," he stopped using them.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Monday, 16 May 2005 23:52 (eighteen years ago) link

poor old orson

RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 17 May 2005 00:01 (eighteen years ago) link

Those wine commercial outtakes are tragic, but I can't stop watching them. "muuaaaAAAAH the Frensh shampagnegnnh."

As I understand it, Orson was on some kind of medication that reacted badly with alcohol, so after a few takes - I imagine he had to imbibe the wine at the end of each take - he was incoherent. Then again, the director's voice seems to indicate they were only on takes one, two and three, so maybe he did show up to the set absolutely trousered. I guess we'll never know. Still, awful to see such a great man laid so low.

Some of my favorite Welles performances were on The Dean Martin Show, of all places. The sketch/dance routine with Dean, Orson and Jimmy Stewart at the hairdressers makes me weep with laughter every single time I watch it.

retort pouch (retort pouch), Tuesday, 17 May 2005 00:20 (eighteen years ago) link

one month passes...
"AHHHHH the French" is a punchline in my house. As is "What is it that you want, in the depths of your ignorance?"

I saw F for Fake for the first time last week, and I'm still thinking about it. The way it's edited is so goddamn brilliant. I keep remebering the sequence when the painter is denying that he ever signed a painting, and instead of just cutting to the biographer saying that he did, he lets the camera sit for a long moment on the biographers expression, purse-lipped, not even wanting to comment on a fact so obvious. "Of course they were signed."

Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Wednesday, 13 July 2005 20:19 (eighteen years ago) link

The best bit of the peas spot: "Get me a jury and show me how you can say 'In July' and I'll go down on you."

And the other best bit is that he's absolutely right. Sure he's being a jerk, but ask a bonafide genius to do the dumbest commercial in television history, and that's what you get. I laugh when I hear that not because Orson is an arrogant prick, but because he so outclasses everyone around him, and says so.

Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Wednesday, 13 July 2005 22:56 (eighteen years ago) link

From this article:

F for Fake: This is the Welles movie that people seem to discover on their own, perhaps by accident, and after the discovery, they cannot contain their enthusiasm. A friend of mine recently saw it for the first time, and declared it: “Cinema, Cinema, Cinema!”

It is. It really, really is.

Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Wednesday, 13 July 2005 23:07 (eighteen years ago) link

This is the Welles movie that people seem to discover on their own

... up until this April, mehaps.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Wednesday, 13 July 2005 23:46 (eighteen years ago) link

True dat. Criterion Collection swings a lot of weight.

Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Wednesday, 13 July 2005 23:50 (eighteen years ago) link

Maybe David Thomson said all that needed to be said about him in his biog/puzzle.

That Thomson book is awful!

C0L1N B... (C0L1N B...), Thursday, 14 July 2005 00:11 (eighteen years ago) link

I know s1ocki will take me to task for mentioning his name, but has anyone read the Peter Bogdanovich book? He knew the guy pretty well and tells some good stories about him.

k/l (Ken L), Thursday, 14 July 2005 20:41 (eighteen years ago) link

i like peter bogdanovich!

s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 14 July 2005 20:55 (eighteen years ago) link

Does PB mention Welles ranting about someone stealing his fudgsicles from the Bogdanovich/Shepard freezer?

tokyo nursery school: afternoon session (rosemary), Thursday, 14 July 2005 20:58 (eighteen years ago) link

The David Thomson book is fantastic! It's the last word on him.

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 14 July 2005 21:04 (eighteen years ago) link

I haven't heard that particular one, rosemary, but it sounds hilarious. Actually, to clarify, I haven't actually read the book, I just same him speak about OW and speak about the book. For the first five or ten minutes, he was referring to his subject as "Welles" or maybe even "Mr. Welles," but after he had done an excellent imitation of the man telling Cybill Shepherd "What you know is BALLS" and told a story about him nearly burning down the Bogdanovich/Shepherd household by putting a lit cigar in his bathrobe pocket, it was just plain Orson.

k/l (Ken L), Thursday, 14 July 2005 21:05 (eighteen years ago) link

This thread reminds me JtN has had my David Thomson book for about 5 years.

Alba (Alba), Thursday, 14 July 2005 21:06 (eighteen years ago) link

I think Orson living with Peter and Cybill was just COMEDY GOLD.

tokyo nursery school: afternoon session (rosemary), Thursday, 14 July 2005 21:07 (eighteen years ago) link

Indeed.

k/l (Ken L), Thursday, 14 July 2005 21:08 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't know about fudgsicles, but PB does make much ado about Orson digging into a bag of Fritos.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Friday, 15 July 2005 03:44 (eighteen years ago) link

The David Thomson book is fantastic! It's the last word on him.

Uh, not really--especially from a factual basis. I mean maybe it's the last word on him from the Pauline Kael-revisionist/ain't Hollywood great! strand of Welles writing.

C0L1N B... (C0L1N B...), Friday, 15 July 2005 05:37 (eighteen years ago) link

If the PB book you're talking about is This is Orson Welles, it's fascinating.

C0L1N B... (C0L1N B...), Friday, 15 July 2005 05:37 (eighteen years ago) link

the problem with the david thomson book is he's writing about the MYTH of OW as much as the reality - that confuses things, and his analysis is often just sloppy. he also completely ignores the last third of welles's life, which is just stupid. his dismissal of "chimes at midnight" is even stupider (DT is a fan of olivier's uber-jingoistic "henry v," which OW's film is something of a high noon/rio bravo reaction to, so maybe that explains it). he's good writing about the films, though, the earlier ones.

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Friday, 15 July 2005 05:41 (eighteen years ago) link

Since when was Orson about FACTS?

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 15 July 2005 07:37 (eighteen years ago) link

But yes I would have liked to have read more about the final third of his life. I suppose we'll just have to wait until the second? third? volume of the Callow biog comes out for that.

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 15 July 2005 07:39 (eighteen years ago) link

Haha, touche.

C0L1N B... (C0L1N B...), Friday, 15 July 2005 08:30 (eighteen years ago) link

Rosenbaum is also publishing a book of his Welles articles.

C0L1N B... (C0L1N B...), Friday, 15 July 2005 08:31 (eighteen years ago) link

"is analysis is often just sloppy. he also completely ignores the last third of welles's life, which is just stupid."

That's incorrect. He has nothing but praise for The Immortal Story and F is for Fake.

"I mean maybe it's the last word on him from the Pauline Kael-revisionist/ain't Hollywood great! strand of Welles writing."

Another reductive judgment. Kael's essay made Thomson very uneasy, and he admits it. As far as Kael's argument goes, there's some merit to it, as the auteurist wing of filmcrit had championed Welles to such a degree that Mankiewicz's contributions were overlooked or ignored. Some of her criticism re Kane is on the money too; she's right on about how beautiful Welles' performance is and the scene in which Kane intones that awful line, "If I hadn't been very rich I'd be a great man.

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Friday, 15 July 2005 12:23 (eighteen years ago) link

Oh and HERE'S a little tidbit from a friend yesterday on FB who would know:

Today I received the very good news from UCLA Film & TV archive that Paramount is scanning the remaining nitrate footage of It's All True so that it can be preserved! More updates to follow.

Ned Raggett, Saturday, 17 June 2023 17:16 (nine months ago) link

Saw this yesterday, Orson doing Shylock on the Dean Martin Show

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59sNCF80C70

four months pass...

I've been watching Chimes at Midnight again in memory of Keith Baxter, and during Criterion's commentary, James Naremore mentions that one reason Welles probably left for Europe was his politics, something Hollywood would not have liked post-WWII and Naremore says he believes Welles would've been in a lot of trouble had he continued making films in Hollywood like he did at RKO during the height of the Red Scare. Never thought of it before, but he's probably right - brings to mind what people said about the Replacements in the wake of the new Tim reissue, in that things probably turned out for the best. (i.e. had Tim become a massive hit, it's doubtful the band members would've handled it well).

birdistheword, Thursday, 19 October 2023 01:59 (five months ago) link

(He does add that J. Edgar Hoover did indeed have a file on Welles and kept an eye on him as well.)

birdistheword, Thursday, 19 October 2023 02:00 (five months ago) link

one month passes...

On Talking Pictures just now, a 1972 version of "Treasure Island" starring Welles as Long John Silver - based on an unfinished screenplay by Welles, though he asked for his name to be taken from the credits. Story of the film here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasure_Island_(1972_film)

Didn't know this even existed tbh.

Free Ass Ange (Tom D.), Saturday, 9 December 2023 18:06 (four months ago) link

... his voice was dubbed... by Robert Rietty!

Free Ass Ange (Tom D.), Saturday, 9 December 2023 18:11 (four months ago) link

why the fuck was welles so into jesus franco anyway

seems like whenever the spanish were involved first thing welles said was "oh well we need to get jesus franco in on this, then, nobody knows more about spain than him"

i'm just saying he might have been better off with rich little. is all.

Kate (rushomancy), Saturday, 9 December 2023 20:23 (four months ago) link


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