generation limbo: 20-somethings today, debt, unemployment, the questionable value of a college education

a wet fart at authority

fart the power

http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20130627.png

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-06-25/why-are-so-many-college-graduates-driving-taxis-.html

how much is the typical monthly payment on student loans debt in the US? and is it only charged once you start earning above a certain level, like in the UK?

that would be pretty cool

You would think that a student loan program would be designed for maximum benefit to students seeking a post-secondary education, but in the USA the student loan program was designed to let banks hold students as hostages until they squeezed out sufficient profits to pay their ransom or they died trying.

yup, exactly

"how much is the typical monthly payment on student loans debt in the US? and is it only charged once you start earning above a certain level, like in the UK?"

bitter lols

Do US students get tax relief on loan payments, at least?

those are complicated questions to answer. The "typical" payment -- really depends what you mean. Median? Average? Private college? Public college? You'd probably be shocked at how wide the distribution is.

We do have an income-based repayment program that limits the size of your payments when you're below a certain income, but I'm not sure it applies universally.

And I believe the interest paid on student loans is tax deductible but not the principal.

Yeah, the interest is deductible. It's something, but much.

The income-based repayments are specific programs and don't apply to most loans.

Does anyone have links to really good data on the debt loads of recent grads, not just average but distribution, median, etc? I'm in the middle of a really annoying argument with smug older lefty types who don't get what this overblown student debt crisis thing is all about.

which thread?

not here, on facebook

that was a joke

haw

http://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/testimony/vermilyea20130625a.htm

there are some recent numbers and distributions there

argh expensive private college professor blathering on about knowledge for knowledge sake cliches. Fuck that at $50K a year. Blood boiling.

A book is a set of written, printed, illustrated, or blank sheets, made of ink, paper, parchment, or other materials, usually fastened together to hinge at one side. A single sheet within a book is called a leaf, and each side of a leaf is called a page. A set of text-filled or illustrated pages produced in electronic format is known as an electronic book, or e-book.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/01/jobless-europe-young-qualified

less bad than the chronic unemployment in the article obv but there's a hardcore of ppl in jobs they don't want w/little chance to change the situation increasingly growing bitter and not buying houses or having kids, on the off-chance they might need to move elsewhere to better their sitch *cough*

"You have to find a routine," she says. "You need a routine. And to meet other people like you, that's really important. To understand that it's not your fault, you've done nothing wrong, that everyone's in the same boat." But still, some mornings "you wake up and there's … no meaning to getting out of bed".

this is surprisingly true

there's never been any meaning to getting out of bed

getting out of bed means you have started your active day, even if the activities of your day have only a slender meaning.

less bad than the chronic unemployment in the article obv but there's a hardcore of ppl in jobs they don't want w/little chance to change the situation increasingly growing bitter and not buying houses or having kids, on the off-chance they might need to move elsewhere to better their sitch *cough*

Yeah, it's obviously a bit easier to get a job in London but enjoy five years living like a student. Maybe if you meet a nice boy / girl you can throw 50% of your collective income at rent and utilities on a one-bed flat small enough to break quality-of-life regulations for 1970s council properties. Save your pennies and we might even sell 35% of it to you for roughly the same as you'd have paid for a three-bed house in the suburbs had you been born 15 years earlier. And enjoy reapplying for your job every 18-24 months when your boss wants to reduce headcounts / keep things fresh. Don't worry about the £80,000 of student debt you owe as a couple, you'll never have a chance to pay it back, we'll just bleed you for a couple of hundred a month until you're 50.

http://www.propublica.org/article/the-expendables-how-the-temps-who-power-corporate-giants-are-getting-crushe

My boss was having a whinge about the state of UK education this afternoon and raised an interesting idea. He suggested that the current trend towards increasing contact time with students - tied into the idea of the student as a consumer who needs to be given vfm - has destroyed the value of degrees for employers. Vocation-focused courses aside, he claimed the true worth of a degree, prior to the shift, wasn't as a mark of intelligence but of the ability to work independently and responsibly towards a particular goal. What that goal was didn't really matter. The decrease in the importance of research and independent reading at the undergraduate level means it's easier to simply breeze through, passively consuming information. Ultimately, the more practical and consumer-focused the course, the less it reveals about the individual.

well being that the trend is in the opposite direction in America I don't think there is anything to that idea

I think there's something to it. I remember when fees were going up there was discussion about UK universities turning into American ones, where it's so expensive that you demand to get something for your money and thus get your hand held every step of the way. Ivy Leagues probably explode that notion or maybe they're just an exception to the rule.

universities where you get your hand held every step of the way are the exception to the rule in america

show up, don't show up, they don't give a crap really, they've already got your money. if you drop out even better, more suckers to reel in

My experience at US vs UK was very much in line with the hand-holding. At least comparatively.

I wouldn't call it hand-holding exactly, but the expectations for independent study (and thought, tbh) are appallingly low, at least in my experience going to and working at a few colleges.

(in the US)

My boss was having a whinge about the state of UK education this afternoon and raised an interesting idea. He suggested that the current trend towards increasing contact time with students - tied into the idea of the student as a consumer who needs to be given vfm - has destroyed the value of degrees for employers. Vocation-focused courses aside, he claimed the true worth of a degree, prior to the shift, wasn't as a mark of intelligence but of the ability to work independently and responsibly towards a particular goal. What that goal was didn't really matter.

Hmm this is interesting. I sometimes wonder what goes on in the mind of my rejectors.

Assuming I'm not bollocks, of course. It could just be that.

I've got a pet theory. I'm wary of it though, because it's very self-serving. It goes like this:

- Having a degree on your CV is not much good at all for getting a sales job or just some job to make money whilst looking around for a job that your degree is relevant to. People look at it, think, 'oh, this person wasted three years' and write you off. Evidence: well, I'm getting nowhere with it and it's been years.

– Meanwhile, good luck applying online or through application forms to those jobs to which your degree is relevant! Those jobs are going to people with pre-existing connections. Evidence: totally anecdotal, based on people I know, but fucked if I've got any actual data on what connections they have or how they're using them.

all my experience tbh.

I read various online articles about how to get a job, and a common theme from top $$$ guys is 'Hah - you may have a degree, young sir, but I want to see a proven track record of hands on mettle. Impress me. Wear a red tie. Don't wear a red tie. You've got to stand out. You've got to prove you can fit in. Why don't you have a youtube video explaining why I should hire you? Delete your facebook account', etc, etc.

If that's an accurate representation of what people are looking for when they hire, then it explains a lot, but again, dunno if these guys are just blustering, and I'm latching on to that as an excuse to be lazy.

I do think independent study classes are treated as a privilege here, given only to high-achieving students who have already proven themselves--afaict they're almost unheard of in undergrad? Much more common in post-grad. If having to go to class and listen to lectures and be tested or turn in work periodically on the reading is what you're calling "hand-holding" then yeah, I guess.

Profs usually down-grade for missing class and generally treat it like high school, basically. They just throw material at you faster and the class sizes are larger (for low-level lecture courses).

Looking for work is destroying my mind and sense of self-worth :(

do i dare go BACK to college???

I'm thinking about going back to university, as well.

The income-based repayments are specific programs and don't apply to most loans.

Is this true? Your loans have to be under the government, which means you'd need to consolidate private loans (if you are able to ) in order to qualify for IBR.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101012270

The largest bank in the United States will stop making student loans in a few weeks.

JPMorgan Chase has sent a memorandum to colleges notifying them that the bank will stop making new student loans in October, according to Reuters.
The official reason is quite bland.
"We just don't see this as a market that we can significantly grow," Thasunda Duckett tells Reuters. Duckett is the chief executive for auto and student loans at Chase, which means she's basically delivering the news that a large part of her business is getting closed down.

The move is eerily reminiscent of the subprime shutdown that happened in 2007. Each time a bank shuttered its subprime unit, the news was presented in much the same way that JPMorgan is spinning the end of its student lending.

"It's no longer sustainable and not the right place to allocate capital in the future," HSBC Holdings Group Chief Executive Michael Geoghegan said in a statement the day HSBC shut down its subprime unit in 2007.

"Lehman Brothers announced today that market conditions have necessitated a substantial reduction in its resources and capacity in the subprime space," the press release issued in August 2007 said.

Is there a way of finding out what % of student loans taken out come from JPMorgan currently? If it's even something like 5%, and no-one else is interested in filling the gap, that's a lot of people not being able to go to college, right?

As I recall, private lending has just basically been forced out by the fact that government loans are better and more popular. Don't know of any cases where students are forced into private loans b/c they can't get govt ones?

Ah okay, wasn't sure how the US system worked

Feel like this belongs here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-23972952