Magic: The Gathering C/D

I don't think I've ever sided out Hellrider because it's been the most reliable game closer for me. Is it a liability due to the 4CMC or other reasons as well?

the 4cmc is the liability against junk rites, once they start putting thragtusks into play you can never win so you want to be as low to the ground as possible and you can't afford to have a 4-drop in your hand in the games where you don't draw the 4th land by turn 4. i'd actually consider cutting land in this matchup too.

in the aggro matchups you are going to be behind on board half the time and a 4 mana 3/3 is an awful play when you're behind and need to block. also volcanic strength is such a powerful finisher in these matchups that you don't need the hellrider to close games even when you're ahead.

lol swift 0-2 drop with r/g. that fucking deck

I managed 3-1 with RG tonight. My proudest moment was overloading electrickery after my opponent went all in with lingering souls.

I also finally unloaded my one copy of voice that's been haunting my binder for:
2 domri rade
3 abrupt decay
1 supreme verdict

:(

i'm hoping m14 switches things up in a way such that kibler-style slower GR aggro with mana elves is viable again, that deck is a lot more resilient and more my style, but gets eaten alive by junk rites and uwr currently.

i tried to draft the drown in filth deck tonight but my pod was mostly unpredictable newbies and so only one drown tabled and i didn't get enough scavenge dudes or grisly salvages. still won the draft but my deck was disappointingly normal, will have to give it another try on mtgo at some point.

I'm already over m14

It's a little dull, isn't it? The prerelease was fun enough although I played terribly, but there aren't any cards that really stand out for me.

i opened a chandra in my prize packs so i actually have to make the call now on whether it's good (hold) or bad/mediocre (sell)

format is a bit uninspiring, i agree. this is basically how every non-M13 core set has been though, for those of you new to this.

feels like a lot of stalemating but it is a core set and a prerelease so that's pretty common anyway. i'm not gonna rush to judge it yet, I thought m13 was pretty dull at first too but it wound up being a pretty decent draft format all things considered, way more fun than say Avacyn Restored. But it is fairly dull in terms of rares/mythics. Chandra is $25 now which seems about right. I do think it'll get played a lot. It might be better than it looks even. I'm interested to see where Mutavault is gonna wind up. Seems like Theros has a big impact on what kinda decks are going to be using something like that. Also interested to see if Young Pyromancer gets played at all.

i decided to take a flyer on chandra and traded for two at my prerelease. i also finished in first but the payout is superflat so i didnt win that many packs. the format seems worse than M13 on first blush but its hard to judge rn obv

when it spoiled there was a ton of bitching about how it was clearly supposed to be Red's Jace TMS but it's red so of course it blows, bla bla bla...the fact that the comparison is being made in the first place is a good sign

format is a bit uninspiring, i agree. this is basically how every non-M13 core set has been though, for those of you new to this.

yeah I restarted w/ m13 but I kinda got a sense that this was the case from other players

but given m13's success it doesn't seem like that should *have* to be the case

managed to X-0 my second prerelease today, proving that core set sealed is the only magic format at which i am at all talented, and still finding it hard to reconcile how much i liked M13 limited with how boring M14 limited has been so far. two things: having plummet and naturalize main deck was completely reasonable in almost every match i played this weekend and fast decks seem hard to play successfully. both decks i had were base green aggro decks w/lots of two drops (but none of the 3 power two drops unfortunately) and i frequently found myself struggling to close out games. particularly in my first sealed, where i was g/w, i lost a game to two giant spiders. generally at the top tables people were playing some combination of blue fliers and bombs, in fact on saturday i was the only green mage to make it to 3-0. my second pool put me in g/b/w splashing white for pacifism, indestructible and the bonesomething sliver that grants doublestrike. i do think it's easier to play multiple colors in this format than in M13 at least in sealed, the 1/1 sliver that taps for any color is pretty excellent fixing. both decks i played 16 land and this felt right as well, lots of creatures were mana sources. one card that really underperfomed was the 2/3 black uncommon that gives -2/-2 when play an enchantment. i had 5-6 enchantments in my deck and never hit once, and i feel like many of the creatures i would've had trouble with had 3+ toughness. i also wonder how good shock is, for the same reason.

was the prize structure any better this time?

I played R/G midrange at my prerelease and like you guys I ran into stalled board states nearly every game. Didn't feel like there was a lot of removal. Cyclops Tyrant of all dumb cards was my MVP - I didn't even start it main. Also won a game by siding in Millstone. Planning to play the Team Sealed SCG Open this weekend so lots more M14 in store for me.

so final thoughts on dgm limited?

1. existence of a handful of overpowered guilded commons made it super easy to read signals
2. basically every 3 color combination seemed to work fine if you had the right cards? esper seemed weaker than it did in gtc, where you had all the dimir cards + tons of extort, but it's not like it wasn't playable.
3. going 2c was usually okay if you forced it early and got a little lucky. weakest 2c combos: izzet, azorius, selesnya, orzhov cause they aren't fast enough to benefit from winning the opening, and you couldn't draft a dedicated populate/detain/extort deck.
4. better than expected: alive/well, armored wolf rider, give/take, the 7 drops, haazda snare squad, maze glider, hired torturer, kraul warrior
5. wkrse than expected: deputy of acquittals, viashino firstblade, bronzebeak moa, korozda gorgon

I didn't get to draft it as much as I wanted to, but it was about what I expected. Lots of freedom, 2c and 3c were both possible, great format overall. Biggest knock I have against it is that even if you were reading signals right, sometimes there just weren't good cards for you. That's a problem in almost every format, but it seemed moreso here because most of the best cards were gold and thus harder to splash.

i'll still be drafting it some on modo since m14 looks kind of bland and isn't even up for another couple weeks anyway

i basically just did what i felt like doing in DGR drafts and rarely got screwed for not following signals, in fact i found the signals were often misleading and it was better to just develop a plan early and stick to it. i really like draft formats in which this is a workable approach, so i enjoyed the format.

3x ROE retro drafts going up tomorrow, which i'm excited about since i didn't really get to draft it the first time around, and it's a lot of people's favorite format.

1. Definitely true

2. I also think this is true. It's better than the first Rav block in this sense because there were certain combinations that you really couldn't build well because of the way the guilds were distributed. I have yet to do a 3-color combo where I wound up thinking "ok this just doesn't work out" - none of the guilds are linear enough to not play well with others (it's cards like Rootborn Defenses that take a hit here)

3. 2c is best if you're playing a fast guild like Gruul, Boros, or Rakdos, because if you can drop bears or 3-power 2-drops and your opponent is dicking around with gates and Cluestones (or waiting on their 3rd color) then you can just aggro them out while their hand is full. Izzet is definitely pretty terrible 2-color. Azorious is okay if you get lucky and pick up lots of Metropolis Sprites/Syndics/Keymaster Rogue/Daring Skyjek types in GTC. Anything that requires you to build things up (like Simic) is generally terrible because if the game goes long an opponent playing 3 colors is just going to have better cards than you. Orzhov is also like this though it can *kinda* work if you get a ton of removal.

4. I disagree on Give/Take - I never found a use for it outside of a bad Urban Evolution, though I suppose getting 3 counters could make things scary in a hurry. Big drops are definitely good because the format is slower and sometimes the decks that just drop big dudes 3 turns in a row beat out anything fancy. Wolf-Rider is definitely very good - everyone underrates vanilla dudes. Snare Squad is excellent in certain decks (those that attack a lot - Boros or Azorious especially). Hired Torturer I haven't really played much but it just seems like ok deck filler to me.

5. Moa probably isn't a 1st pick but it's definitely very good. 5/5's are hard to deal with and there are lots of cards in those colors that can pump out two creatures at once. Others I agree with.

Here are some of my picks -

Worse:
Steeple Roc - like every expensive 1-toughness creature it never stays on the field
Runner's Bane - seems like there are a lot of ways to pump or bounce creatures to make it fall off
the Gatekeepers - you probably want 5 gates to run these and that seems real hard to secure
Ascended Lawmage - just gets blocked
Drown in Filth
Gruul War Chant
Warped Physique - still good, but not the 1st-2nd pick that I always seem to think it is

Better: Wear/Tear - always a SB card but with so many cluestones and great creature enchantments running around it can really hurt certain decks
Maze Abomination
Mending Touch
Thrashing Mossdog - he looks real close to the subpar Kurodza Monitor but believe me he's a real pain in the ass for many decks
Boros Battleshaper - just immediately takes over the game
Haunter of Nightveil - very hard for your opponent to win with this guy out there
Maw of the Obzedat - makes combat really difficult for your opponent
Scab-Clan Giant
Turn/Burn - I knew this was one of the set's best uncommons but I've 2-for-1'd so many times with this that it's almost always my MVP when I've got it

Ok...that's it!

also, hard removal like Angelic Edit seems way better now because there are so many cards that'll just take over the game due to the slowness of the format

I found it really easy to play around moa. gruul war chant, notsomuch. edict also better because you are not dead t5 like you were in gtc.

i think snare squad is the card that most surprised me, and deputy of acquittals was most disappointing, my start-of-format evals were pretty good otherwise

yeah its toughness was super relevant. the m14 card that does the same thing is also good but is generally gonna get traded for. getting rid of snare squad usually meant wasting a decent spell or double blocking.

anyone have recs on sleeves that don't get all mucked up

weakest 2c combos: izzet, azorius, selesnya, orzhov cause they aren't fast enough to benefit from winning the opening, and you couldn't draft a dedicated populate/detain/extort deck

azorius is probably my favorite guild to be in simply because i think the format is weak to fliers generally. i really like wind drake and have picked it very highly. mono colored izzet decks can combo win really fast too, i've seen a few turn 5 wins with nivix cyclops. aggro selesnya just doesn't have enough three power two-drops to really work, iirc the only one is call and it's both uncommon and in rtr. unflinching courage is amazing but it also goes in about half the decks in the format so it doesn't really count. orzhov would def take my vote as weakest two-color guild.

unlike cider i spent a lot of time on mtgo trying to counterdraft - there was a small window where people were taking cluestones/gates/durdles too high and you wanted to force aggro but i think the pro tour kind of scuttled that, i remember people at my local drafts being like 'no aggro is amazing' the friday the pro tour started. but then after the pro tour every idiot was like 'no you have to force a gtc guild so you set yourself up in pack two' and took zhur ta druid over everything and i just kept looking to find an open seeming rtr guild (azorius and golgari being my faves) and punish them. people finally stopped taking tithe drinkers over unflinching courage and no draft strategy seemed dominant for a bit and then i think people got bored, comfortable or ambitious and lately i've seen a disproportionate # of 4-5 color decks looking to do 'sweet' things so i am looking for consistent, efficient decks with lots of evasion e.g wind drakes again. i think i'm the idiot that overrates being two colors, i have probably missed out on some powerful cluestone-style or bomb-y decks because i think i am going to lose to mana screw, not having two-drops &c &c. i think the format will probably not evolve much past this because the # of players will drop off but i will probably continue to draft it a few times a week since a) i have 0 voice of resurgences b) M14 isn't that fun seeming and c) have plenty of packs still and they're aren't worth anything otherwise

best common (d/g/r): beetleform mage/basilica screecher/stab wound
best uncommon: haunter of nightveil/gruul guildmage (maybe? this one is really hard)/sel charm

most surprising common: wind drake. most disappointing: yeah, probably deputy. not sure if tithe drinker was a bust or not but i really didn't draft them, i only have 1 on mtgo.

recs on sleeves that don't get all mucked up

i've been using the same set of dragonshields for almost exactly a year now for drafting and they're still in decent shape.

I found it really easy to play around moa. gruul war chant, notsomuch. edict also better because you are not dead t5 like you were in gtc.

war chant would be awesome in a fast, creature-dense deck. I just never really seemed to be on the offense when I played it. Moa is also useless on defense but Selesnya has a lot of creatures or ways to make more so I've always been able to put a lot of pressure on with it. I dunno - War Chant is obviously very playable but it wasn't as powerful as it seemed on first glance.

xp re: sleeves

i use KMC Matte sleeves (package looks like this) for everything, they're pretty good. dragonshields are the most durable but they don't shuffle as smoothly as KMCs. ultra pro are cheaper but not very durable at all.

I've won t5 w/ nivix cyclops but my cyclops decks always splashed

commons: beetleform, syndic or mugging, stab wound
uncommon: far/away turn/burn (tie) / ghor-clan / bloodfray/skymark (tie)

for best common/uncommons, I'd say this:

C: Zhur-Taa Druid / Grisly Spectacle / Stab Wound
U: Turn/Burn / Dinrova Horror / Vitu-Ghazi Guildmage

I tried 5-color for a while. Posted about it a few times but the gist was that you'd lose to 2-color aggro decks but generally beat the 3-color more durdlier ones because your avg. card quality was generally better. Sucks to draft this and not get any bombs though, because it's those cards that demand answers right away that make the deck tick.

In general I aim to draft Grixis - there are a lot of real great uncommons in DGM (Turn/Burn, Far/Away, Fluxcharger, Haunter of Nightveil, Warped Physique, Woodlot...) and Dimir seems way underdrafted in general. Having access to all the format's best removal is awesome.

BTW I did once pull off the Fencing Ace/Phytoburst/Slaughterhorn 18 damage on turn 3 start....then struggled mightily to deal the other two damage. The Nivix Cyclops/Inaction Injuction decks are a lot more fun.

oh yeah I forgot about vitu-ghazi. I guess that's clearly the best uncommon in straight rtr tho I'd pick skymark ahead of it if I were in bant and doing dgm.

I've won t5 w/ nivix cyclops but my cyclops decks always splashed

last draft of the format yesterday night...pure red/blue izzet cyclops deck. (unless you count dimir guildgate + far/away)

I was actually hesitant about putting that guildgate in (aggro deck w/ 3 maakas, was hoping to curve out) but it won me a game.

very nice - I think Izzet got helped a lot by full block draft, but I still would hesitate to do it 2-color

i once 3-0'd with straight Dimir no splash - first three picks were Mirko Vosk, Far/Away, and Warped Physique. I think I got a 13th or 14th pick Pilfered Plans. In GTC I got Lazav and Nightveil as picks 1 and 2. It's so much fun when everything goes your way :)

this seems useful for anyone who wants to hit the ROE retro queues this week
http://www.mtgoacademy.com/rise-of-the-eldrazi-a-draft-primer/

I'm prob not gonna play it but I'm tempted, seems like such a cool format

my first roe draft: http://i.imgur.com/L6GQAWI.jpg

highlight was forcing an opponent to double-chump-block my bramblesnap with 2 pelakka wurms

did you win? level up cards all seem insane

lost the finals to a lord of shatterskull pass since i had no removal

Getting misty-eyed for ROE just looking at your deck

yeah that really was the best draft format wasn't it

i think the most exciting draft formats are the ones that really mess with traditional card evaluation concepts, and ROE is sort of the extreme of that, with Innistrad being a slightly more modest example.

'really mess with traditional card evaluation concepts... lost... since i had not removal'

well obviously removal is still good, just not so much the ones that only kill x/2s which is all i saw in that draft

just giving you a hard time :D

i watched sam black do a rise draft and he was b/g as well, the drones seemed p legit. he made ok use out of stuff like last kiss but it seemed p marginal. i've stopped doing the throwback drafts because i never know what i'm doing and end up just losing a bunch but ROE is p tempting.

The other reason I love ROE is that it's the closest you get to the epicness of EDH in a tournament format. I've had a game where I got attacked twice by a Kozilek and won with three permanents left on the board - it's almost like a movie.

lol