Going To Law School

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And for God's sake, do not take these posts as a challenge.

On the other hand, if you are willing to work your ass off to make something work and starve for a few years after law school, there are good jobs as a lawyer to be had.

x-post: all of the smartest, most interesting paralegals I ever worked with who took the job as a taste test all decided to do something else with their lives.

Colin Meeder (Mert), Monday, 9 February 2004 21:19 (twenty years ago) link

you and i are both former paralegals, colin. what are you saying about us? ;-)

Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 9 February 2004 21:22 (twenty years ago) link

Exactly what you think. :)

Colin Meeder (Mert), Monday, 9 February 2004 21:23 (twenty years ago) link

Seriously, though, I was a paralegal for a sole practitioner, and that would have been a better gig for me, I think.

Colin Meeder (Mert), Monday, 9 February 2004 21:24 (twenty years ago) link

to 2d what colin said. fwiw, i think that my mediocre l-school grades (i was a b/3.0 student at an ok-not-great school) has been a blessing in disguise. my grades were too shitty to tempt BigLaw, which meant that i had to figure out what i REALLY wanted to do and how to market myself. i eventually got a job at a nice small firm doing work that i like (i mainly do t&e and tax work, w/ some general corporate transactional stuff thrown me occasionally) -- though i'll be the 1st to admit that i was VERY lucky.

Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 9 February 2004 21:26 (twenty years ago) link

on the other hand, my paycheck is kinda small compared to what friends at BigLaw are pulling down, and i'd be lying if i said that i gave that no thought at all. so yeah, you do starve if you go small-firm (by choice or necessity).

Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 9 February 2004 21:28 (twenty years ago) link

I AM a paralegal!&* yay.

everyone asks me if i want to go to law school, and I always tell them no. once you work at a big firm, the luster runs off real quick. its like 'do you want to work 12 hours a day every day, have nice clothes and a nice car but absolutely no time whatsoever to enjoy them?' also, if i ever get into the situation of having a family or whatever, work would totally dominate all of your time you could be spending with them.

ive heard theres some decent firms out there that let you leave at 530, but i would assume that theyre the exception rather than the rule.

paralegaling isnt a bad gig tho. The money isnt that bad, there's tons of overtime opportunities if youre into that sort of thing, and the hours arent too heinous most of the time.

bill stevens (bscrubbins), Monday, 9 February 2004 21:40 (twenty years ago) link

How does someone become a paralegal?

Peeney, Monday, 9 February 2004 21:49 (twenty years ago) link

yay paralegals! (the real estate paralegal here has saved my ass a few times).

Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 9 February 2004 21:49 (twenty years ago) link

its fucking easy to become a paralegal.

in california at least.. you can go to school for it, but its a colossal waste of time and money. All you really need is a bachelors (and its one of the few fields where having an arts/humanity degree is helpful. mine is in history) and a legal employment agency. almost all law firms use legal recruiting/temp agencies because they dont want to screen the employees themselves and they tend to get decent people as a result. i got my start by answering a legal recruiter ad looking for someone with a BA, an 'attention for detail and organizational skills.'

once you actually get your foot in the door all you need to do is work in a law firm for a year, get some good experience and then have someone who passed the bar to sign a form that basically cites some stuff from the california business practices codes and statutes and BAM. youre a paralegal. no certificate, no school, none of that.

bill stevens (bscrubbins), Monday, 9 February 2004 21:55 (twenty years ago) link

...and that's a lot more formal than some other states.

Colin Meeder (Mert), Monday, 9 February 2004 21:57 (twenty years ago) link

WOW! What city do you live in, bill?

Peeney, Monday, 9 February 2004 21:58 (twenty years ago) link

my experience: NYC and Philly are both VERY informal wr2 hiring paralegals -- just have a BA and a decent GPA, willingness to work, find a good recruiter, and yer in! interestingly, some NJ firms were more picky about having a paralegal degree/certificate (but the NJ Bar has its head up its ass more often than not, which is odd b/c practicing law in NJ is actually pretty great).

Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 9 February 2004 22:05 (twenty years ago) link

I got a paralegal certificate from an ABA-approved program in eight or so weeks of full time study (it was a summer intensive). So easy it was embarassing. Seriously, it was easier than my senior year of high school, and this was in one of the more "challenging" programs! I then went off and worked for a pharmaceutical company in the intellectual property division (my background is microbiology). It took me all of two months to decide that I never wanted to read another patent or patent application again in my entire life. I am so very, very glad I figured this out before I spent a whole bunch of time and money going to law school and/or taking the patent bar to become a patent agent. Hated, hated, hated it!

So yes, I second the idea of working in the area of law in which you are interested before doing anything drastic.

Also, to quote some lawyer friends of mine: "law school is basically trade school. Do not go to law school unless you really want to be a lawyer." So yes, if you think you'd like to be something other than a lawyer, there is probably a better way of getting there.

quincie, Monday, 9 February 2004 22:05 (twenty years ago) link

Also, to quote some lawyer friends of mine: "law school is basically trade school. Do not go to law school unless you really want to be a lawyer."

amen, and so MFOTM that it coulda been me who said that :-)

Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 9 February 2004 22:06 (twenty years ago) link

The one thing that I will say in favor of Harvard is that it wasn't just a trade school; that's really the advantage (and disadvantage) of the elite schools.

Colin Meeder (Mert), Monday, 9 February 2004 22:08 (twenty years ago) link

los angeles.

theres a grip of legal placement agencies. i used kelly legal. they seem to place alot of people with big firms. or at least my own firm. which is big.

if youre up north in the bay area, try landmark legal. nice people.

thats the beauty of the legal profession. you dont have to do half the work you would trying to find other kinds of work. i got my job here after being unemployed for 5 weeks a year and a half ago when the economy was SHIT-TAY. paralegaling is kind alike nursing in that respect. quite recession-proof.

bill stevens (bscrubbins), Monday, 9 February 2004 22:08 (twenty years ago) link

for paralegals, yes it's that easy. for lawyers, not so. that's where my bitching about credentials-snobs and in-firm recruitment people comes into play.

Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 9 February 2004 22:10 (twenty years ago) link

and law-school career services people ... oh god, when the Revolution comes those motherfuckers will be the 1st against the wall. well, law school deans (or a certain law school dean) will be 1st, but after that ...

Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 9 February 2004 22:12 (twenty years ago) link

thats also where going to harvard comes into play. they bascially hand you over the keys to the city when you graduate from there.. and yale. 'cept thats the keys to the presidency.

bill stevens (bscrubbins), Monday, 9 February 2004 22:16 (twenty years ago) link

harvard, yale ... also: stanford, penn, nyu, chicago, virginia, cornell.

others that'll get you far: michigan, vanderbilt, georgetown.

Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 9 February 2004 22:21 (twenty years ago) link

If only that were true, Bill. They give you the keys to BIGLAW CITY; anything else you have to dig and scrape and fight for just as hard as anybody else.

And Ivy Leaguers have gotten laid off from BIGLAW in the last few years, and I am informed that positions are much harder to come by.

Colin Meeder (Mert), Monday, 9 February 2004 22:23 (twenty years ago) link

rumor has it that ivy league-law schools also have tire-pumps on the graduation stand, so as to inflate the grads' egos ... (colin excepted of course)

Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 9 February 2004 22:26 (twenty years ago) link

As an attorney in the entertainment racket, you can expect to have clients that are much more demanding and unrealistic than your everyday non-celebrity clients--which takes some doing. Also, most of your time will be spent poring over dull contract language at 10:00 pm while your client is out at the club pouring Crystal. It isn't as glamorous as you might think.

Pick up one of those books about what you can do with a legal degree besides practice law, and you'll see very quickly that most of those things involve having some other type of experience that you can supplement with a law degree--or else they are even more mind-numbing than being an attorney (employee benefits coordinator, for example). Are there people with law degrees who went on to other fun, exciting non-legal careers? Sure. Same with MBAs, MAs, PhDs, or any other graduate degree. John Grisham was an attorney--but getting a law degree doesn't qualify you to become a best-selling author unless you already have the requisite talent and discipline.

What are you doing now, Colin? Did you cash out of some NY Biglaw firm and move on to calmer, smaller pastures, or did you leave law in general?

webcrack (music=crack), Monday, 9 February 2004 22:27 (twenty years ago) link

I did not know that about the ivy league. BIGLAW sucks too - from an attorney's standpoint. staff is another thing.. only big complaint is that they shaft staff in favor of partners.

theres one lawyer at our firm whose making it work for him tho. this past year he's billed something like 700 hours, all the while raking in 6 figure salary. he'll be politely let go in a couple more months and then he can probably ease into something else that suits him.

bill stevens (bscrubbins), Monday, 9 February 2004 22:30 (twenty years ago) link

after i graduated and before i paralegaled (and eventually i went to l-school), i spent a year-and-a-half as a benefits administrator. you DEFINITELY don't need a law degree for that shit! (damn, stay in and master ERISA and benefits law in general [shit almost NO-ONE wants to touch] and you'll ALWAYS eat!!)

Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 9 February 2004 22:30 (twenty years ago) link

Heh. I'm halfheartedly studying Employee Benefits (Retirement Plans) now, as I post. Instead of being a nice fluffy last semester, it's turning out pretty shit as a result of this statutory morass.

webcrack (music=crack), Monday, 9 February 2004 22:33 (twenty years ago) link

i got some of my best l-school grades in my Employee Benefits & Qualified Plans Taxation classes. then again, i'm twisted.

Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 9 February 2004 22:35 (twenty years ago) link

but yeah, ERISA is one of the most fucked-up statutes out there ... and then there's the attendant case-law and regs.

Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 9 February 2004 22:37 (twenty years ago) link

(files away knowledge of Eisbar's employee benefits expertise for future reference in 3 month's time)

webcrack (music=crack), Monday, 9 February 2004 22:40 (twenty years ago) link

For now I'm completely out, but I'm keeping my license current.

Colin Meeder (Mert), Monday, 9 February 2004 22:45 (twenty years ago) link

three months pass...
OK, I've finished, so what do I do now?!

cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 10:30 (nineteen years ago) link

congratulations!

teeny (teeny), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 10:36 (nineteen years ago) link

what the hell is a 'graduate recruitments officer'? I don't want to be one of them, I don't think.

cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 11:58 (nineteen years ago) link

You could party.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 16:43 (nineteen years ago) link

three months pass...
Dear Lawyers/Future Lawyers of ILX,

Try not to be assholes.

Thanks,
adam.

adam. (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 17:28 (nineteen years ago) link

You are totally going to get sued.

n.a. (Nick A.), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 17:31 (nineteen years ago) link

I'll try.

cºzen (Cozen), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 17:33 (nineteen years ago) link

:(

cutty (mcutt), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 18:19 (nineteen years ago) link

i'm thinking of going to law school

amateur!!st, Tuesday, 24 August 2004 18:25 (nineteen years ago) link

I sometimes think about it. but less and less these days.

adam. (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 18:39 (nineteen years ago) link

I just started two weeks ago. It's friggin' hard, especially on top of a day job. But I'm liking it so far.

mike a, Tuesday, 24 August 2004 18:57 (nineteen years ago) link

i'm in my second year of law school. it is VERY HARD. but i like it and it's the first time ever in my life that i feel like i fit in.

gem (trisk), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 01:57 (nineteen years ago) link

four months pass...
http://anonymouslawyer.blogspot.com/

anonymous poster, Saturday, 8 January 2005 21:36 (nineteen years ago) link

i don't know what to do with my life. is this it?

caitlin oh no (caitxa1), Saturday, 8 January 2005 21:50 (nineteen years ago) link

do you like money?

Danzig and Jeanne-Claude (deangulberry), Saturday, 8 January 2005 21:51 (nineteen years ago) link

hi dere

cutty (mcutt), Saturday, 8 January 2005 21:54 (nineteen years ago) link

hi dere
i am in der law office

Danzig and Jeanne-Claude (deangulberry), Saturday, 8 January 2005 21:56 (nineteen years ago) link

xpost no i hate money!

caitlin oh no (caitxa1), Saturday, 8 January 2005 21:56 (nineteen years ago) link

]my mom says the same thing to me, tbh, she will also say, "Sarah, three words, estates and trusts."

+1

California probate work is quite abundant and profitable.

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Friday, 9 December 2022 01:42 (one year ago) link

Prop 19 that recently passed is probably a gold rush for the profession

sarahell, Friday, 9 December 2022 02:14 (one year ago) link

It's a gigantic pain in the ass, is what it is.

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Friday, 9 December 2022 02:22 (one year ago) link

seven months pass...

Welp, paid my fee and I’m taking the LSAT in October

butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Tuesday, 11 July 2023 22:41 (nine months ago) link

Good luck, table.

il lavoro mi rovina la giornata (PBKR), Tuesday, 11 July 2023 22:53 (nine months ago) link

yay!!! meanwhile, me and my coworker recently discussed both of us going to law school and being "study partners" ... i don't think this will happen tbh ... i will probably be posting to this thread about considering going to law school until ilx dies or I die haha

sarahell, Wednesday, 12 July 2023 07:46 (nine months ago) link


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