Come anticipate David Fincher's "Zodiac"

Part of the thing with Allen is that he's the perfect example of a guy who seems creepy and definitely up to no good. You feel compelled to think "well he's guilty of something surely" and I think that feeling is part of what the movie is about. Easy Dirty Harry.

totally

also I like when they bust into his rv and find the sex toys and the animals in the freezer

so it was a well known fact in the States before this film came out, that it *isn't* who the cops in the film think it is/might be?
you'll have to forgive me as this crime isn't really that well known about in the UK at all iirc.

this is probably the last film i can recall watching twice at home over 2 nights, before that i'm thinking not since i was a kid with Karate Kid or something.

Allen was primarily singled out because of Graysmith's book. (A bestseller, I believe.) after the movie I compulsively checked out some theories online and there seems to be a lot of suspects these days.

As VegemiteGrrl points out the movie is really centered on Graysmith's narrative and can't be divorced from his point of view.

(Though obviously it's not totally reducible to his point of view either.)

I dunno if it's well-known but the post-script of the movie makes it clear Allen was not even charged, and the whole movie is about Graysmith drawing questionable conclusions

I know I've mentioned it before, but seeing the making-of, esp. re: the GGI, really opened my eyes to the possibility of film in the modern age. It reminded me of the filmmaker who cited Ang Lee's "Sense and Sensibility" as one of the best uses of CGI he'd ever seen, namely because no one would notice it. (Iirc, there are computer storm clouds in a scene or something.) "Zodiac" is like an entire movie of that, where everything is artificial in service of not seeming artificial. Michael Mann's "Collateral" has a similarly intriguing philosophy behind it, using digital cameras to capture the way cities really look at night, which chemical film ironically can't accurately pick up.

I can't remember if the end notes on screen say that Allen was cleared by DNA? Only part I didn't like was Fincher shoehorning in Allen as the likely killer when it's not even disputed by the time the film was being made that he had nothing to do with it...

they do

Collateral a good comparison for it lookswise I think. Miami Vice too. Sorta that hyperreal clarity paired with artificially beautified images.

For different reasons, zodiac is always paired with Eyes Wide Shut in my mind, for reasons I haven't totally worked out.

Allen isn't shoehorned in imo because he's a central part of the phenomenon via Graysmith. Did Toschi ever say anything regarding Allen as a suspect?

2009 Chronicle Blog post sez:

Toschi said Allen was the “best suspect” he ever investigated. But Allen ultimately was ruled out by fingerprints, handwriting samples and DNA and was never charged in connection with any Zodiac killings

i ended up being really taken by the disjoint between image and structure in this movie; everything was so clear and beautiful and well composed, but it moves along in this pointless and herky-jerky fashion, just grinding along for years and years. riveting, scary, moving but simultaneously really patience-testing. i took that to be the point.

my favorite zodiac theory is the Kacszynski (Unabomber) = Zodiac theory.

It's baloney but the handwriting similarities CREEPED me the hell out the first time I saw them matched up. Plus the whole 'he was in the bay area when it happened' is neat enough to make conspiracy nuts go bananas with drawing connections. It's a dead end but it is a fun one to 'what if' through when you first stumble onto it

sorry to derail

I probably told this story upthread but my dad loves telling the story (which he told me repeatedly when I was a small child!) that the zodiac called and threatened him when he and my mom lived in the Bay Area in the late 70s. Lots of crank calls going on I imagine. Must have been a bizarre time.

Love that the "best suspect" is totally ruled out by empirical evidence. So metaphysically poignant!

Alright, guys. I'm rewatching this Sunday night.

Not that I keep up, but this has got to be one of the best movies of the last 20 years right? That opening and the time-lapse song sequence in the middle(?) are just breathtaking

I was thinking about this while out driving--I'm a very good driver, so I can think about stuff other than the driving--and you've got four or five (at least) people on this thread who keep watching this over and over, and admit to a compulsion that has them thinking about watching it again. We make attempts to explain what it is that compels us to keep coming back to it; I'm guessing we would all concede that it's not the easiest thing to explain. (I know I would.)

A perfect mirror on the Graysmith's own obsession, and his attempts to explain himself.

mr veg is in love with the time-lapse recreation of San Francisco -- and he just about peed his pants when they recreated the tv studio for Melvin Belli

if you guys like this film, i really recommend 'memories of murder', directed by bong joon-ho (who also directed 'the host', 'mother', 'snowpiercer'.) similar to 'zodiac' in a lot of ways, but it has a lot of the jarring tonal shifts korean cinema are known for (slapstick comedy, suspense, drama, tragedy)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memories_of_Murder

it's so cool how the movie seems to build to Allen as the main suspect, especially after that interrogation scene in which you can barely contain the "THIS is the guy" feelings, and then that angle just sorta peters out and is pretty much forgotten until Graysmith finds the scent again. that in-betweener space there is where things get really diffuse and time-lapsed as well--climaxing (or bottoming out) in the scene at Avery's house.

I think on first viewing that's the space as well where things begin to feel desultory, the movie too long or without purpose, but I think it's a key element in its enduring fascination.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xY8Jrp_L7jM

^^^ friend of mine did CGI animation for that shot and the over-the-bridge city shots

so brilliant

this opening shot is for real dope as hell

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2013/101/a/5/zodiac_opening_shot_by_webdurk-d617mni.png

yes yes yes

memories of murder is a good film but not remotely as good as this

i cannot argue with that

watching this right now

some interesting comic actor cameos: june diane raphael as ruffalo's wife, john ennis as a psychologist

the ending is def funny after having watched 'party down'

That opening shot is exactly the sort of shot you could not get with film.

Love Chloe Sevigny in this, especially for such a small, minor supporting role.

remind me why I don't have this on bluray. clearly I'm an asshole.

This movie's like "The Thin Red Line," it can just be left playing in a loop in the background.

haha not coincidentally my other fav from the last 15 years

(xposts) Of the many really small roles, I love the cop who, after Koteas wryly says that Graysmith thinks he's going to solve the Zodiac case, cheerfully adds, "Good for him!"

there's not a false note in any of the performances really. Love the gentle and melancholy affection between Edwards and Ruffalo. It's a moving and even slightly tragic depiction of male platonic friendship. Not a lot of other movies even approach something like that with the kind of subtlety and intimacy that feels so true to life here. Their relationship feels so worn in in a beautiful way.

You just reminded me of something that's so good in Zodiac, and so forced in another film I otherwise really like, Clockers. I'm thinking of the Paul Stine crime scene, and how that compares to the big crime scene in Clockers. In the latter, Keitel and Turturro engage in all this knowing, movie-cop banter that's supposed to show us how desensitized they've become. Every time I've watched Clockers, that scene bothers me--do actual cops behave this cavalierly? In Zodiac, though, there's no banter and no jokes once they arrive at the crime scene (well, excepting Ruffalo's aside about Edwards' birthday). They're completely focused on trying to make sense of what's there.

yeah one thing i really like is that, despite everything, the detectives are clearly distinguished from Graysmith by their professionalism--you get this particularly with Toschi walking out of Dirty Harry early.

Mcpoyle from It's Always Sunny as the victim.

(xposts) Of the many really small roles, I love the cop who, after Koteas wryly says that Graysmith thinks he's going to solve the Zodiac case, cheerfully adds, "Good for him!"

― clemenza, Friday, August 9, 2013 6:24 PM (39 minutes ago) Bookmark

james legros!

john getz from 'blood simple' as an editor at the chronicle

i love brian cox in this.

siskel film center is doing a fincher retrospective this month. missed this on the big screen when it came out, so i'm gonna get tix.

i'm too tired to check if anyone mentioned the superb docs about the crimes on the bonus disc, but wow....amazing stuff

jaymc let me know when you're going and I might join you