The Picardy Third: A List Thread

turns out it's right on the wikipedia page!

Thomas Bateson's 15th century madrigal 'Your Shining Eyes' features use of the Picardy third in bar 16.[citation needed] A more modern example is found in The Beatles' And I Love Her, which closes on a D major chord from a final passage in the key of F major/D minor.[citation needed] Other modern examples include "Roundabout" by the band Yes,[citation needed] "Sweet Child o' Mine[citation needed] by Guns N' Roses,[citation needed] and the Black Sabbath classic "N.I.B." where the final guitar riff over an E power chord ultimately slides down to and sustains G♯.[citation needed]

zero of the signified and i were just joking about how funny it'd be if "eleanor rigby" had a picardy third. a ray of sunshine!

― freelance helgenberger (get bent), Tuesday, August 20, 2013 3:14 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

loll

feel like there's some music theory geek picardy third joke in existence, or was it all a dream

the picardy third would be a perfect name for a math-rock/emo band circa 2000.

per that hot chick dominique, xtc's "dear god."

A more modern example is found in The Beatles' And I Love Her, which closes on a D major chord from a final passage in the key of F major/D minor.

This isn't right. The first chord in the instrumental coda is G minor. I think the second chord is an Fadd6 (F is in the bass). Second time, after the G minor chord, they end on D major.

This might be a bit of a technicality - Fadd6 is close to D minor. (It's a D minor seventh in first inversion.) The thing is, F is the tonic of the passage (and indeed the whole song) and not D.* The song is in a major key.

(E is actually the tonic earlier. They modulate up a half-step.)

You hear this in a major key?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nm4YlZ3oYsQ

From one listen, I hear it modulating from Fm to F#m. That main riff is ^3-^2-^1 in a minor key. The last time through, at the end, it ends on an F# (maj) chord, which does seem to function as a Picardy third.

OK sorry! I read that passage wrong. (I thought it was saying the chords went from F major to D minor.)

I don't think there's reason to think D is ever the tonic, though.

xp

The verse moves between i and v. The refrain goes III-IV-(b)VII.

xpost

Sund4r, there's clearly a IV-V-I cadence in E major (and then in F major after it modulates). I don't think the F# minor chord (G minor after it modulates) is ever the tonic.

i.e., I hear the verse progression as ii-vi-ii-vi-IV-V-I.

"And I Love Her", despite being mostly built with minor chords, is indeed in a major key - the one at the end of the title phrase.

And yeah, despite sounding alot like a Picardy third at the end, it really isn't.

Oh, that makes sense.

xpost

There's a D# in the melody, too (when it's in its original key).

I think I was being thrown because of the way it ends on F#, which is kind of bizarre then!

The cool thing about that riff is that it never ends on the root note of the chord until the D major chord at the end.

those beetles were clever

Isn't the tonic moving from Eb to E then? Or am I really having an off day? It sounds like Eb rather than D at the beginning, unless my guitar's really out or I'm really off (v possible; it's a stressful day).

P sure "Sweet Child o' Mine" is in a major key (Mixolydian to be exact) too. Don't think there is even a minor chord in the verse or chorus? (Again, it's not my best day but I'm even looking at sheet music right now.)

xp - E flat it is.

Sounds closer to E to F to me, but I think they were tuned a little flat.

Throughout Nick Drake "River Man", with bonus points to Nick following it up with a Mystic #4. Song stays in A+ long enough to say "it's in A+" but the Picardy effect is in full force. Also big Picardy enthusiasts: The Zombies ("Time of the Season", "Butcher's Tale", "She's Not There", "Beechwood Sparks")

I thought immediately of the end of "Beechwood Park" but then when I listened it wasn't there at all, it ends on some bichordal mess ;_;

The Kinks - "Sunny Afternoon"