feel like there's some music theory geek picardy third joke in existence, or was it all a dream
― i am.. a maven (Matt P), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 22:24 (ten years ago) link
the picardy third would be a perfect name for a math-rock/emo band circa 2000.
― freelance helgenberger (get bent), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 22:26 (ten years ago) link
per that hot chick dominique, xtc's "dear god."
― freelance helgenberger (get bent), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 22:52 (ten years ago) link
A more modern example is found in The Beatles' And I Love Her, which closes on a D major chord from a final passage in the key of F major/D minor.
This isn't right. The first chord in the instrumental coda is G minor. I think the second chord is an Fadd6 (F is in the bass). Second time, after the G minor chord, they end on D major.
This might be a bit of a technicality - Fadd6 is close to D minor. (It's a D minor seventh in first inversion.) The thing is, F is the tonic of the passage (and indeed the whole song) and not D.* The song is in a major key.
(E is actually the tonic earlier. They modulate up a half-step.)
― timellison, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 22:53 (ten years ago) link
You hear this in a major key?:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nm4YlZ3oYsQ
From one listen, I hear it modulating from Fm to F#m. That main riff is ^3-^2-^1 in a minor key. The last time through, at the end, it ends on an F# (maj) chord, which does seem to function as a Picardy third.
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 23:05 (ten years ago) link
OK sorry! I read that passage wrong. (I thought it was saying the chords went from F major to D minor.)
I don't think there's reason to think D is ever the tonic, though.
xp
― timellison, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 23:06 (ten years ago) link
The verse moves between i and v. The refrain goes III-IV-(b)VII.
xpost
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 23:07 (ten years ago) link
Sund4r, there's clearly a IV-V-I cadence in E major (and then in F major after it modulates). I don't think the F# minor chord (G minor after it modulates) is ever the tonic.
― timellison, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 23:09 (ten years ago) link
i.e., I hear the verse progression as ii-vi-ii-vi-IV-V-I.
― timellison, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 23:10 (ten years ago) link
"And I Love Her", despite being mostly built with minor chords, is indeed in a major key - the one at the end of the title phrase.
And yeah, despite sounding alot like a Picardy third at the end, it really isn't.
― Lee626, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 23:11 (ten years ago) link
Oh, that makes sense.
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 23:13 (ten years ago) link
There's a D# in the melody, too (when it's in its original key).
― timellison, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 23:14 (ten years ago) link
I think I was being thrown because of the way it ends on F#, which is kind of bizarre then!
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 23:15 (ten years ago) link
The cool thing about that riff is that it never ends on the root note of the chord until the D major chord at the end.
― timellison, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 23:18 (ten years ago) link
those beetles were clever
― Lee626, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 23:18 (ten years ago) link
Isn't the tonic moving from Eb to E then? Or am I really having an off day? It sounds like Eb rather than D at the beginning, unless my guitar's really out or I'm really off (v possible; it's a stressful day).
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 23:20 (ten years ago) link
P sure "Sweet Child o' Mine" is in a major key (Mixolydian to be exact) too. Don't think there is even a minor chord in the verse or chorus? (Again, it's not my best day but I'm even looking at sheet music right now.)
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 23:25 (ten years ago) link
xp - E flat it is.
― Lee626, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 23:26 (ten years ago) link
Sounds closer to E to F to me, but I think they were tuned a little flat.
― timellison, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 23:27 (ten years ago) link
Throughout Nick Drake "River Man", with bonus points to Nick following it up with a Mystic #4. Song stays in A+ long enough to say "it's in A+" but the Picardy effect is in full force. Also big Picardy enthusiasts: The Zombies ("Time of the Season", "Butcher's Tale", "She's Not There", "Beechwood Sparks")
― ship who you wanna ship (flamboyant goon tie included), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 23:47 (ten years ago) link
I thought immediately of the end of "Beechwood Park" but then when I listened it wasn't there at all, it ends on some bichordal mess ;_;
― ship who you wanna ship (flamboyant goon tie included), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 23:49 (ten years ago) link
The Kinks - "Sunny Afternoon"
― timellison, Monday, 23 September 2013 01:17 (ten years ago) link