craftsmanship, consumerism, virtue, privilege, and quality

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but not really. he's been doing that forever.

scott seward, Wednesday, 11 September 2013 19:10 (ten years ago) link

in fact it's possible to see in that specific element and the general motif (I was going to say 'overall motif') an attempt to resolve some of the things we're talking about.

the general motif is industrial labourer or czech robot if you like. the specific pocket is individualism, and a gesture to idiosyncratic amateurism of the sort Treeship was talking about upthread.

i kind of differ on this point. in furniture the main thing i admire is the enthusiasm of the novice.
― fervently nice (Treeship), Friday, 26 July 2013 17:10 (1 month ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i think that view represents - if you'll forgive me for pigeon-holing, TS - the post-machine age view of craftsmanship (I'll keep what historically speaking i think is an inaccurately gendered... sexed.... word (i'm tempted to say 'cisword' - is that a thing).

Romanticism is the lodestone here, (or maybe Rousseau) but the useful waymark is William Morris and the Pre-Raphaelites. There's a fetishisation of a projected pre-renaissance Merrie England in their approach - utopianism partly defined by 'pre-knowledge'. Don't want to get into scholasticism v renaissance approaches to knowledge cos i'd totally expose myself, but part of the reason I used the phrase 'machine age' rather than 'post-industrial' is because between the 13th and 15th centuries I think notions of craftsmanship were essentially forged by early forms of industrialism which ran in together with the early renaissance and urbanisation - there is an assumption implicit in fetishised medievalism that links pre-knowledge with pre-accountancy, pre-urban, pre-industrial landscapes. And not entirely wrongly so - it was the moral fetishisation that was surely wrong.

What characterised those pre-machine age notions of craftsmanship? Guilds, towns, money, men, Hansa, weaving, credit, merchants, houses and families, division of labour. (One point is that pre-machine money=fineness, with post-machine age craftsmanship money=uniqueness or at the least localness/individualism, not precluding fineness). Craftsmanship had a reason for its guilds, its closed shops, its special language, its rituals, its special taxes, its houses, its special days, and artisanal rarifying of skill, all designed to keep people from imitating and replicability - a monopolistic administrative con, a controlled market. . We want it industrial, but not tooo industrial dahling (see again the denim overall). We want what our neighbours have, but not what too many of them. Craftsmanship was controlled industry, the start of the industrial revolution.

In fact the actual making of things took place everywhere - villages of course had their cartwrights, their shoesmiths and - worth saying they needn't be *fine* in such circumstances, though no doubt some had better reputations than others. This is the late 19th C 'medievalism' aspect, I think. Towns themselves were still heavily rural:

Things had barely changed in 1722, when a treatise on economy deplores the fact that artisans instead of peasant were concerning themselves with agriculture in the small towns and princedoms of Germany. It would be better if everyone 'kept in his own station'. Towns would be cleaner and healthier if they were cleared of livestock and their 'piles of dung'. The solution would be to ban all farming in the towns, and to put it in the hands of those suited to it'. Craftsmen would be able to sell goods to peasants; peasants would be sure of selling the regular equivalent to townspeople, and everyone would be better off.
(this is Braudel, btw - it indicates that the simplistic town/rural pov wasn't entirely true, and also that it was true enough to attempt to see a theoretical division).

What's really interesting is that even at the time the holders of the money - men, Houses, guilds - looked to inexpensive labour out of town:

Moreover, in Flanders and elsewhere, where the towns had established a sort of industrial monopoly in the eleventh and twelfth centuries, there was a massive exodus of urban industries to the outskirts of the towns in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries, in search of cheaper manpower, outside the protection and hawk-eyed supervision of the urban craft guilds. The town lost nothing thereby, controlling as it did the wretched rural workers outside its walls and managing them as it wanted. In the seventeenth century and even more in the next, villages took upon their weak shoulders a very large burden of craft working.

+

'the putting-out system' – 'The rural artisan worked at home, helped by his family, while still keeping a field and a few animals. Raw materials - wool, flax, cotton - were provided by the merchant in town who ran the operation, received the finished or semi-finished product and paid the bill. The putting-out system thus combined town and country, craft and farming, industrial and family labour, and at the top, mercantile and industrial capitalism.

Marks and stamps of fineness were needed to preserve against imitators or interlopers, but were also needed because, like most industrialists, they were always looking for the cheapest form of labour to provide the best quality producet. I'm sure the were workers more skilled than others, that's because they didn't allow others a look in. Division of labour also helped - you could split the highly-skilled and more expensive from the mere producers. In terms of gender, families, women and children all worked beside men at the lowest-paid levels. Once you start getting getting into more specific and higher-paid areas, you start to see gender division, not all one way. Are the words a guide here? Tailor, sempstress etc. Probably not entirely.

Interesting to note India in this pre-colonial period - a 17th C (I think) traveller was astonished to notice their vastly superior metallurgy with vastly inferior production processes involving hoe-like instruments, and no division of labour:

'...they had succeeded .. in producing a crucible-fired steel of exceptional quality, which was exported at high prices to Persia and elsewhere. In this respect they were ahead of European metallurgy. They worked their own metal, producing ships' anchors, fine sidearms, swords and daggers of every design, good hand guns and respectable canon (not cast but made of welded iron bars hooped together).

er, regarding division of labour, i've found this scrawled note, and I'm not sure what's me and what's quoted, sorry:

By definition much of this form of historical craftsmanship died with the industrial revolution. And this pre-industrial version of craftsmanship, efficiency was a vital element to a good craftsperson - you can spend time making one good sword, but can you make many of them, over and over again. Technique means the ability to replicate the skill in a way that is able to generate you money. There is nothing utopian about this. We are not looking at the creation of a world of one-off ideal items, some sort of Platonic heresy - the craftsman who makes the single ideal sword, such a thing would be worthless. Or to put it in a less philosophical way a European traveller to India in the 18th Century was astonished at the deficiency of tools, which meant that a sawyer could take 'three days to make a plank which would take our workmen but an hour' (Pierre Sonnerat - p504 The Perspective of the World)

Who could fail to be surprised that ‘the fine muslins we seek so eagerly are made on looms composed of four pieces of wood stuck in the ground?’ If the Indian craftsman nevertheless produced masterpieces, this was the result of extraordinary manual dexterity, further refined by extreme specialization: 'A job that one man would do in Holland here passes through four men's hands before it is finished'

Anyway, machine-age industrialism fucked up all that European protectionism of craft, and splintered notions of craftsmanship into all sorts of paradoxical and contradictory somewhat idealistic elements that were taken up late 19thC to form the modern notion of craftsmanship.

To take one example: if things aren't replicable by machine, and it's possible to get from there to saying it's the individualism that matters more than the replicability - ie it matters less whether it's a good chair, more whether it's a chair made by an individual.

It would be unfair to characterise the William Morris set like that of course - they were all about the design, and one of the more interesting case studies wrt the transmutation of notions of craftsmanship is typography.

It's essentially an inherently industrial method of formally necessary design. It does not require vast amounts of labour of course - that is where it differs to the industries around cloth, say. But that is also what makes it interesting. I'll take the William Morris set, who designed their own Dove typography:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/Doves_Press_Bible.jpg

It was designed by Thomas Cobden-Sanderson in the Morris environment of Hammersmith on the banks of the Thames. In an argument over the rights of who had to use it, ie replicate its image, Cobden-Sanderson, threw the matrices and letters over the Hammersmith Bridge by night:

And now I am on my guard, and throw only type, and clear of the bridge … I have to see that no one is near or looking; then, over the parapet a box full, and then the audible and visible splash. One night I had nearly cast my type into a boat, another danger, which unexpectedly shot from under the bridge! And all nights I fear to be asked by a policeman, or other official guarding the bridge – and sometimes I come upon clusters of police – what I had got in my 'box' … Hitherto I have escaped detection, but in the vista of coming nights I see innumerable possibilities lurking in dark corners, and it will be a miracle if I escape them all. I am doing this wholly 'on my own'; no one is aiding me, no one is in my confidence, no one, not even Alice or Albert, and of course not Annie, knows.
(Annie was his wife).

You can interpret this as expression of individual ownership, of idiosyncrasy, of the post-machine age Morris utopianism - reproduction of the product is post-lapsarian. After this reaffirmation and symbolic expression of the death of artisanship, it's interesting to follow typography in Britain. There is a direct line through Edward Johnston (tube typeface, + live near and knew Cobden-Sanderson), thru to Eric Gill (pupil of EJ's & famous designed of gill sans-serif of course), to David Kindersley (full-on morrisite, coulda shoulda woulda designed UK's new motorway and a-route road signage, honorary operation yewtree candidate), and his third wife, Lida Lopes Cardozo, who designed the gates for the British library:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6f/British_Library_Gate_Shadow.jpg

This is industrial artisanship - and let Lida Lopes Cardozo serve the death-knell on 'craftsmanship' as a word, and see this interesting quote – an English traveller (1793) registered surprised and delighted at the unwonted sight of peasant women near Peking breeding silk worms and spinning cotton: 'which is in general use for both sexes of the people, but the women are almost the sole weavers throughout the Empire'. ( (I don't know anything about the considerable and remarkable Chinese cloth industry, no doubt with its own fascinating development - it would be interesting to see whether notions of the craftsman are different in a society with a different development of pre-industrial industry)

BUT YES - weavers, always the weavers. Take 11th Century Flanders, with weaving an industry since Roman times, add English wool, and then a superplus of the Vikings, with their trade routes stretching into Russia and their wealth, a splendid market for high-quality textiles. This is on the start. The weavers are at the centre of everything imo. They smashed the traditional bonds of communal serfdom:

living near or on subsistence levels
traditional rights
hereditary and guaranteed tenancy of a piece of land
firmly embedded with kindred

they disappeared into something more volatile, more urban, psychopathically and heretically literate. I'd love to know whether their characteristic revolutionary chiliasm can be followed in any way to the late 19th Century craft utopianism of Morris et al, maybe via EP Thompson's revolutionary underground. Can't remember why this Hogarth pic seemed crucial to my argument at the time I was taking these notes, but here it is anyway:

http://www.shakespeares-sonnets.com/Archive/Images/Prent401.jpg

Can't remember what the title is either - let's call it The Industrialisation of Craft... wait! it's called Industry and Idleness. Maybe it was to reiterate the point about notions of craftsmanship essentially being merchant owned and governed:

Industries which made goods for export, on the contrary, had their economic basis in a rather primitive form of uncontrolled capitalism. notably in the great cloth industry it was merchant capitalists who provided the raw materials and who owned the finished product, which was sold on the international market. There the position of the skilled workers - the weavers and fullers - was precarious...
pp28-29 The Pursuit of the Millennium.

Possibly also illustrative of the genuine transformation of a craftsperson's occupation that was transformed to the point of notional destruction by the industrial revolution. Weavers! They're always at it:

www.youtube.com/embed/ekjSHUNODdg

(kinda prefer The Dixon Brothers version tbh, but couldnae find it).

Anyway the point, if I had a f'ing point, is that the denim overalls can be read in one way as a symbol of the complications of pre-industrial and post-industrial notions of artisanship. To bring it, importantly, to the pickles - notions of artisanship seem to me to be divisible between the individual amateur, but as the typographic example showed, that can grow into a meaningful tradition, that may or may not be contained within a family or House:

In answer to Hurting 2’s comment:

but it's just hard for me to believe that pickle-making is the kind of skill one needs to hone over a lifetime.
― PJ. Turquoise dealer. Chatroulette addict. Andersonville. (Hurting 2), Friday, 26 July 2013 13:52 (1 month ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink


I agree with Hurting 2, but I might make a distinction is between a person who makes pickles whether over a lifetime or no, and a handing down over several lifetimes knowledge of pickle-making. the one year journeyman pickle-maker is different from the family of pickle-makers. Pickle-Makers to Their Majesties, with their carefully seasoned oak-barrels, their vinegars derived of the finest vintages of Burgundy vinegars, their cucumbers grown in secret locations, specific leeward riverbanks that catch both the morning and evening light but are shaded from the midday sun by the dappled shade of sycamores, the secret timing of their preparation, ritualised as entire religions, dependent on the cycle of the moon, the mansions of the stars, and the aphelion/perihelion distances of the sun, their hieratic picklemaker robes. The contents of the recipes split between nine unknown pickle men, matching the nine wise men of the east, whose identities are a closely kept secret, and who only convene at intervals of prime-numbers in cloisters inaccessible to all but the very poorest and most humble. their pickles so refined that only a few may be allowed to consume it, they only know the secret words to be uttered at a certain few, shabby establishments that will bring forth from darkened back room the specific gherkin or cornicon required.

One has the ritual and ceremony... and also reliability... of the early industrial, pre-machine age of notions of craftsmanship, and the other an individual and localness and non-guarantee of quality. they bleed into each other - would reiterate the hippie-morris intersect point about cold-war notions of apocalypse feeding into the need to be able to do things yourself.

I think i can probably make an argument of mobile phone companies being crypto-Hanseatic Houses or Guilds from the above, but i can't be aris'd rite now.

Fizzles, Wednesday, 11 September 2013 21:12 (ten years ago) link

fu tl;dr tbf

Fizzles, Wednesday, 11 September 2013 21:12 (ten years ago) link

also, i'm going to go spare if i don't work out soon how to embed youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekjSHUNODdg

Fizzles, Wednesday, 11 September 2013 21:13 (ten years ago) link

ah fuck tha lot of yers

Fizzles, Wednesday, 11 September 2013 21:13 (ten years ago) link

woah, nice. i'm gonna need a while to digest that but i'm psyched to read that massive post, fiz

your authentic guitar playing self (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 11 September 2013 21:17 (ten years ago) link

fpd u for cisword but when i get a chance i'll take that on (on phone atm)

his LIPS !!! (darraghmac), Wednesday, 11 September 2013 21:21 (ten years ago) link

a few more fps in there if you take the time to go thru tbf,

Fizzles, Wednesday, 11 September 2013 21:24 (ten years ago) link

i look fwd to it

his LIPS !!! (darraghmac), Wednesday, 11 September 2013 21:27 (ten years ago) link

str8 fyre beautiful post fizzles

tho obv i'd contend that if you can't tell the difference in the pickle at the end of the day, yr process, however an interesting paragraph it makes, is a black box to which i am entirely indifferent

his LIPS !!! (darraghmac), Wednesday, 11 September 2013 21:37 (ten years ago) link

Pickle-Makers to Their Majesties, with their carefully seasoned oak-barrels, their vinegars derived of the finest vintages of Burgundy vinegars, their cucumbers grown in secret locations, specific leeward riverbanks that catch both the morning and evening light but are shaded from the midday sun by the dappled shade of sycamores, the secret timing of their preparation, ritualised as entire religions, dependent on the cycle of the moon, the mansions of the stars, and the aphelion/perihelion distances of the sun, their hieratic picklemaker robes. The contents of the recipes split between nine unknown pickle men, matching the nine wise men of the east, whose identities are a closely kept secret, and who only convene at intervals of prime-numbers in cloisters inaccessible to all but the very poorest and most humble. their pickles so refined that only a few may be allowed to consume it, they only know the secret words to be uttered at a certain few, shabby establishments that will bring forth from darkened back room the specific gherkin or cornicon required.

my eyes are filled with tears of laughter and wonder at this

it is so beautiful i'm swooning

your authentic guitar playing self (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 11 September 2013 21:38 (ten years ago) link

yes, that was a truly incredible post

#fomo that's the motto (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 11 September 2013 21:39 (ten years ago) link

i would, in all seriousness, buy a book about yr picklemakers

his LIPS !!! (darraghmac), Wednesday, 11 September 2013 21:43 (ten years ago) link

yeah actually today i went off into a reverie about the selection process for the replacement of one of the nine, involving peregrinations across mitteleurope in search of innocent and brave males, and curious women of independent thought, from areas of recondite geography being given quests to prove the purity of their pickle-making credentials so they may become one of the nine guardians of picklemaking. I'm on fucking holiday, I can do this.

Fizzles, Wednesday, 11 September 2013 21:47 (ten years ago) link

it could be parfum but vinegary

his LIPS !!! (darraghmac), Wednesday, 11 September 2013 21:48 (ten years ago) link

was thinking of making some pickles myself but now am intimidated

what's up ugly girls? (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 11 September 2013 21:58 (ten years ago) link

wdn't worry my dad used to make machine-age pickled onions that fucked your head in. used to sit there over christmas in front of the tv w acid reflux washing over us like fucking hallucinogens, watching 40,000 leagues under the sea or something, crying vinegar tears.

Fizzles, Wednesday, 11 September 2013 22:01 (ten years ago) link

oh I've pickled vegetables, that's easy. no I mean actual pickles. you know, out of cucumbers.

what's up ugly girls? (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 11 September 2013 22:04 (ten years ago) link

thanks for all that fizzles, i will always stan for ilx posts that bother to quote braudel

"Dave Barlow" is the name Lou uses on sabermetrics baseball sites (s.clover), Wednesday, 11 September 2013 22:14 (ten years ago) link

this is excellent work on a subject with which i am unfamiliar although it reminds me of

i) a 2am l1bg3n braudel gotta catch em all session which resulted in reading a couple dozen pages of the book about the creation of the mediaeval world & being a little surprised by how lucid, pellucid he is &

ii) reading the historical glosses in clive coates book about burgundy the other week and being surprised quite how early the byzantine vineyard categorizations were being developed -- the interplay of church holdings, parisian merchants, royal patronage, this long prior to the esate-fracturing napoleonic code of inheritance and the 19th c appellation system, so that the same often tiny (<4ha) vineyards whose wines russian billionaires patronize today mostly had the same lustre many centuries ago (the extent to which these distinctions are auratic or merely real being another rabbit hole)

2 ℜ 4 u (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Wednesday, 11 September 2013 22:14 (ten years ago) link

ah. you might be able to do an nvq?

tho it's kind of interesting in light of this thread how skilled manual labour has become part of the further education... industry. given part of i'd define it is *transmission* of knowledge as much of the practice of the skills.

Fizzles, Wednesday, 11 September 2013 22:16 (ten years ago) link

oh that was an xp to Shakey Mo.

That's interesting, Nil - that's a subject you cd get lost in for sure. the vinegars bit was put into my head by tosches v amusing 'article' on opium dens in vanity fair:

How could so sophisticated a nose fail to detect the cow shit with which this most celebrated estate in Bordeaux fertilizes its vines? A true wine connoisseur, if there were such a thing, would taste the pesticide and manure above all else: he would be not a goûteur de vin but rather a goûteur de merde. But there is no true connoisseurship of wine outside of those who know that the true soul of wine, l’âme du vin, is vinegar. It is in sipping straight those rare aged vinegars designated da bere that one truly tastes wonders: the real thing, an ichor far beyond the jive-juice of that industry of adjectives and pretense which was once the artless and noble drink of artless and noble peasants—peasants nobler and of greater connoissance than the moneyed suckers of today who have been conned into believing that the tasting of wine calls for words other than “good,” “bad,” or “just shut up and drink.”

Fizzles, Wednesday, 11 September 2013 22:25 (ten years ago) link

the industry of adjectives and pretense sometimes talk about cowshit in relation to fine burgundy

'farmyard'
A slightly dirty, earthy, manure-type aroma. In a young wine it may indicate poor (unclean) winemaking practices. In an older bottle of red Burgundy it can be a desirable, developed character.

2 ℜ 4 u (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Wednesday, 11 September 2013 22:36 (ten years ago) link

I'm american btw

what's up ugly girls? (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 11 September 2013 22:39 (ten years ago) link

yes, i've heard that before - the mouldy cabbage and shit side of things. not sure i've ever operated consistently at a high level of wine drinking to fully understand, but i think i've probably had a couple of good burgundies that have had this. it's quite noticeable because, like Fernet, which does a similar thing differently, it's moreishly foul.

Fizzles, Wednesday, 11 September 2013 22:40 (ten years ago) link

ah, tbought you might be. come to the uk SMC! we can have a pint of vinegar and discuss conceptual and actual pickling. seriously tho. pickling fapov. think it over.

Fizzles, Wednesday, 11 September 2013 22:41 (ten years ago) link

I...

... Jenks ... Neu! military£ ... snkkt! ... Özil ... ienjoyhotdogs (imago), Wednesday, 11 September 2013 22:55 (ten years ago) link

the heuristic seems to be.....if you think your wine tastes like shit, check the receipt and if it's less than £30 send it for a refund, if it's more then order a couple dozen extra before it's all shipped to moscow and hong kong

2 ℜ 4 u (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Wednesday, 11 September 2013 23:00 (ten years ago) link

I'm reaching the part of Mason & Dixon where it vaults to the glory of showing its full hand (about 500 pages in), and Fizzles' incredible posts here tie in closely with its notions of trade, craft and ownership (it discusses Mason's weaver stock at length, and the violent horrors visited upon the upstarts who'd have the impertinence to claim some decisive stake in their own production). The pickle-making paragraph especially is probably the best Pynchon I've read by someone other than Pynchon (and even defeats quite a large proportion of the very man's own work).

Anyway, just registering my continued support for the Fizzles Exegesis Project. The most demanding of all possible sitemods would have permabanned everyone except you by now :)

Oh, I could rattle on at length about the wealthy folk (often Russians) whom I work for, and who tend to regard nothing as of any beneficial value unless it is absurdly marked-up.

... Jenks ... Neu! military£ ... snkkt! ... Özil ... ienjoyhotdogs (imago), Wednesday, 11 September 2013 23:02 (ten years ago) link

xpost definitely. i did this once with a burgundy i bought off waitrose innit innit. it tasted fucking awful, and i don't mind fucking awful. took it back and they were all 'it's supposed to taste like that' (i'd checked on the internet about the farmyard, so i wuz ready for them so I said 'taste it!' and they can't so i won). it was horrible tho, not even farmyard, just sharp and nasty, cork wet as well. and the thing about waitrose is they give you double your money back in vouchers, something they don't promote. bought a handful of bottles of facile expensive red and a bar of fruit and nut.

Fizzles, Wednesday, 11 September 2013 23:03 (ten years ago) link

aw imago you are really (definitively) too kind - closest to pynchon that gets is that some of it looks like it was pastiche put thru google translate, but it's fun to dick about.

Fizzles, Wednesday, 11 September 2013 23:06 (ten years ago) link

how was the fruit and nut

his LIPS !!! (darraghmac), Wednesday, 11 September 2013 23:12 (ten years ago) link

the foodstuff I would like to take an amateurish interest in the production of is probably olives and olive oil. have you heard of the electrical supply store in clerkenwell that also sources by reputation the finest olive oil in london, from turkish cyprus? i've tried both their olives and their oil and while i can't say for certain their produce is better than the very best supermarket fare (or even the semi-decent EVOO), the massed power-tools and claw-hammers more than anything else gave it the most appealing essence, piquant flavour bursting unexpected from amidst burnished steel and chipped meshwork, and i returned there several times throughout my otherwise useless masters degree

... Jenks ... Neu! military£ ... snkkt! ... Özil ... ienjoyhotdogs (imago), Wednesday, 11 September 2013 23:16 (ten years ago) link

incidentally, i chased down that coy WdlM riddle in Lispet, Lispett and Vaine i quoted in the earlier post:

The narrator interrupts - tho not before Maunders has has got in a riddle (again interrupted):

What's more, they knew in those days that objects are only of value when representative of subjects. Has it never occurred to you (no, I suppose not) that the Wisest's apes, ivory, and peacocks were symbolical? The apes representing, of course --'
'Of course,' I interrupted hurriedly.

Reading Waldemar Janson's superb Apes and Ape Lore, a book no house should be without, I found the argument that the ape represents luxuria, and that the typical gothic architectural representation of a woman on a pedestal above an ape being beset by serpents, was to indicate that woman's having overcome the sin of luxuria. This woman can be identified with Sheba, whose journey to Solomon was seen as typologically prefiguring the journey of the Magi to Christ, and exemplary of her overcoming her typically oriental sins. Since then apes have been traditionally associated with Solomon's court, and Janson notes:

The symbolic raison d'être of the animal, however, was quickly forgotten, at least in Italy, and the ape survived in these scenes only as an exotic luxury object)

...

In Northern art, on the other hand, the 'pilgrimage ape' retained its identity throughout the 15th century. Since the Journey of the Queen of Sheba was not a popular subject in Late Gothic art, we encounter the animal mostly in the company of the Three Magi. The number of examples is far smaller than in Italian art, but the role of the animal, generally speaking, is clearly symbolic, rather than incidental to the Oriental setting of the scene.

no idea whether this is what WdlM was referring to or whether he was just playing games, but there it is.

Fizzles, Wednesday, 11 September 2013 23:20 (ten years ago) link

how was the fruit and nut

― his LIPS !!! (darraghmac), Wednesday, 11 September 2013 23:12 (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

incapable of judgment d. it's the food of the gods.

Fizzles, Wednesday, 11 September 2013 23:21 (ten years ago) link

fp rescinded, carry on

his LIPS !!! (darraghmac), Wednesday, 11 September 2013 23:28 (ten years ago) link

haha um.... nope

your authentic guitar playing self (elmo argonaut), Thursday, 12 September 2013 16:00 (ten years ago) link

It’ll feature a first-person confessional piece about an hipster viking lookalike, Jay Williams, who turned to weightlifting to save himself from an early demise. The story covers themes of weight loss, consumption, grief, spirituality and mental illness in a way that connects.

your authentic guitar playing self (elmo argonaut), Thursday, 12 September 2013 16:02 (ten years ago) link

unexpected lols @ "an hipster"

your authentic guitar playing self (elmo argonaut), Thursday, 12 September 2013 16:03 (ten years ago) link

For the record, I think it's a pretty cool project, especially if the content is as worthy as the production values.

dan selzer, Thursday, 12 September 2013 16:05 (ten years ago) link

be that as it may i think they need to, uh... maybe work on their messaging a little bit

when the video zooms in on logo for THE LUDDITE over a soundtrack of chunky electric guitar power chords, i mean

your authentic guitar playing self (elmo argonaut), Thursday, 12 September 2013 16:11 (ten years ago) link

an 'ipster

call all destroyer, Thursday, 12 September 2013 16:12 (ten years ago) link

I didn't watch the video. I'm generally a supporter of letterpress printing, as I am a letterpress printer, but am constantly thinking about the way it's used/viewed. On one hand it's an old-fashioned process that results in a high-quality product that can't be replicated with cheaper/newer technologies. On the other hand there are people doing it just to keep an old tradition around.

dan selzer, Thursday, 12 September 2013 16:14 (ten years ago) link

an historic hipster

#fomo that's the motto (Hurting 2), Thursday, 12 September 2013 16:15 (ten years ago) link

I assumed there were plenty of small, letterpressed journals floating around, am I wrong?

#fomo that's the motto (Hurting 2), Thursday, 12 September 2013 16:17 (ten years ago) link

dan i have no problem with letterpress whatsoever! i'm just unimpressed with the too-precious gee-whiz novelty it brings to the idea of a print-only publication

your authentic guitar playing self (elmo argonaut), Thursday, 12 September 2013 16:18 (ten years ago) link

anyway -- fizzle's suggestion of mobile phone companies being descendant of old textile houses reminded me in a circular manner of this photo that popped up on my tumblr dash recently, coming from a blog mentioned itt before -- itsworn.tumblr.com

http://24.media.tumblr.com/f7350181588b3dd42ed693ffdd38bb08/tumblr_mrjcmnwQJ61qdbn9do1_500.jpg

leather iphone case! with indigo stains from raw denim! ah, the patina of a year's worth of use really adds character to your phone... which you probably won't own anymore past the next 6 months

your authentic guitar playing self (elmo argonaut), Thursday, 12 September 2013 16:19 (ten years ago) link

There aren't that many fully letterpressed journals. It's too much work and too expensive. Only bigger shops that have hot metal equipment and large enough presses can do it in anyway that makes sense.

dan selzer, Thursday, 12 September 2013 16:20 (ten years ago) link

also using kickstarter to fund a letterpress only journal is a little like being helicoptered into an authentic wilderness experience

#fomo that's the motto (Hurting 2), Thursday, 12 September 2013 16:21 (ten years ago) link


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