DEM not gonna CON dis NATION: Rolling UK politics in the short-lived post-Murdoch era

Also, having relatives in the area, I understand the Labour candidate's major policy was to run a consultation of keeping three schools open and this is what most locals think won her the election.

The same three schools she voted to close when she was in the council back in May this year, separately voted against an SNP effort to have a public consultation on, and ridiculed parents petitioning for the decision to be reviewed as single issue local nutters in the press.

She sounds tailor made for politics.

Something we started that might interest some on this thread: https://www.facebook.com/spoilyourvoteuk

Looks like the government has lost its appeal over the Poundland/workfare thing, which makes this the second time in two days they've lost an appeal on some back-of-a-fag-packet policy that turned out to be totally illegal.

What was the other one?

Something we started that might interest some on this thread: https://www.facebook.com/spoilyourvoteuk

― Pingu Unchained (dog latin), Monday, 28 October 2013 11:56 (2 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Aw I was gonna put something like this into my novel :D

Good idea but I think it could go further. How, I don't know.

The other one was the failed Lewisham Hospital appeal.

Conflicted about spoilt ballot papers, on one hand you're protesting about the legitimacy of the system, on the other hand are there really no smaller parties that overlap with most of your views - Socialist/Green/whatever? Not voting for minority parties you broadly agree with further delegitimises the system by entrenching the power of the main parties.

I got involved with the Young Greens and was overwhelmed by how a) useless they were and b) interested in themselves as politically ambitious individuals they were

That's the same with the youth wing of any political party dude.

The system is already manifestly illegitimate and does not require saving, obv

I mean the real issue is that millions of people don't vote because they don't feel represented by the main parties. Not to suggest that they're an amorophous mass, but if the free market actually worked then something would have arisen to represent those voters - outside of UKIP/EDL right-wing populism.

Is it just my own hypersensitivity or am I right to be annoyed about government agencies in 'defiant' mode after, say, High Court or Supreme Court decisions against them? Way to set an example to law-abiding hardworking people, eh?

Wow look at the DWP Twitter feed right now.

@dwppressoffice 42m
We’re pleased that Supreme Court has unanimously upheld our right to require claimants to take part in programmes which help them into work

@dwppressoffice 42m
Esther McVey: we’ve always said it was ridiculous to say that our schemes amounted to forced labour - yet again we have won this argument
Expand

@dwppressoffice 41m
Supreme Court confirms DWP is able to require claimants to take part in employment programmes that will help them into jobs

even if you are in favour of this transparently vile scheme you still ought to be dismayed by the dwp actively propagandizing for policies rather than just implementing them

I think that's one of those do-I-agree-with-them? things. ISTR the Dept of Health losing some initial battles over setting up the NHS, and I'd be happy if they were defiant/propagandizing over that.

But I'm stretched to agree w/myself here, because they're being manifest cunts.

I mean, it's understandable for the government minister of the day to adhere to party line, but I object when what are supposed to be impartial civil servants post clearly partisan things on social media, or mouth off in statements.

Gove

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BX0AKVdIQAA4v1i.png

the conservative party in its current incarnation is less interested in adhering to constituional or informal convention and more concerned with rationalizing leadership structures, the trad civil service is sclerotic and requires streamlining via a biddable hierarchy who force things through institutional inertia, if the career functionaries don't agree with what their doing then get someone from the private sector who does

there's short odds on a single article or op-ed or even a shitty blog in the times telegraph etc objecting to the dwp street-teaming this

long odds obv

Your knowledge of probability qualifies you for a job in the Cabinet.

gonna draw a box on my ballot paper, write 'nakhchivan' next to it, then ✓

next thing we know britain is constitutionally subject to azerbaijan

there's a lot of uk interest in azerbaijan right now, friendly caspian autocracy with petrochem supply that isn't russian or arab

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/sep/19/bp-azerbaijan-100bn-dollars-gas-deal/print

hatcat marnell (suzy) wrote this on thread DEM not gonna CON dis NATION: Rolling UK politics in the short-lived post-Murdoch era on board I Love Everything on 30-Oct-2013

I mean, it's understandable for the government minister of the day to adhere to party line, but I object when what are supposed to be impartial civil servants post clearly partisan things on social media, or mouth off in statements.

aldi young dudes (suzy) wrote this on thread DEM not gonna CON dis NATION: Rolling UK politics in the short-lived post-Murdoch era on board I Love Everything on 25-Jul-2013

For those too lazy to click:
a friend complained about the #racistvan; her report is well worth a read:
"I just spoke to the Home Office via their text-callback service about the 'GO HOME OR FACE ARREST' billboards. Very interesting conversation with the woman working there: she recorded my complaint, warned me that notes of complaint via that route were being binned and quietly gave me the official Home Office complaints address: Home Office, Direct Communications Unit, 2 Marsham Street, London SW1P 4DF.
"Then she told me she and her colleagues felt the message was counterproductive and would increase fear, making it less possible for destitute migrants or people who might want to claim asylum to approach the HO for help - and she said she'd raised this with the PCS and was hopeful that the union would respond. So, in summary, even the Home Office's own staff don't want to deal with the fallout of this campaign."

the latter of these, if one is to focus on what is or isn't a 'civil servant's job', is a far more egregious breach of what is expected/acceptable.

like stet said, i think- depends on whether or not you agree with the implementation/design issue at hand.

a public/civil servant who won't go to bat for their own department's policy has an admirable lack of concern for their prospects of continued service.

You don't really need the difference between those two instances explained to you, do you? And no, it has nothing to do with which of them you agree with.

Conflicted about spoilt ballot papers, on one hand you're protesting about the legitimacy of the system, on the other hand are there really no smaller parties that overlap with most of your views - Socialist/Green/whatever? Not voting for minority parties you broadly agree with further delegitimises the system by entrenching the power of the main parties.

― Matt DC, Wednesday, October 30, 2013 10:14 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I got involved with the Young Greens and was overwhelmed by how a) useless they were and b) interested in themselves as politically ambitious individuals they were

― light will have borne the eternal thing (imago), Wednesday, October 30, 2013 10:16 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

What we're most concerned with are people who don't go out and vote. When only 12% of 18-25 y/os voted in the last election it means they get the shortest shrift when it comes to government decisions. If (especially) younger voters are seen to be indifferent to policy, there's not really much in the way of defending against huge rises in tuition fees and other such rubbish. If all 6m who didn't vote (through apathy, disgust, indifference, insecurity or otherwise) either went out and picked a candidate or spoilt their ballot, at least it would be counted. Not sure what it would achieve, but it would be significant enough for people to take notice and question where things are right now.

AFAIK there aren't really a whole lot of left-wing or alternative parties in my area. It also feels (to me) that many of the ones that are out there come across as rather ineffective, too bogged down in lefty infighting, old-school "comradery" and CCCP-esque imagery to present a serious challenge to the mainstream parties. Asking for equality and fairness shouldn't be seen as a radical or dangerous idea, but the more pompous and doctrinaire the left becomes, the more it pushes people away.

Essentially what we're saying is - you don't have to choose a side if you don't want to, but you do have the option of spoiling your vote, which in a democratic system is better than not voting at all.

Darragh, you clearly have a reading and comprehension problem wrt my posts above:

I am not alone in being fed up with inappropriately snarky or 'defiant' outbursts by public servants who ignore an obligation to conduct themselves in a non-divisive, professional manner when dealing with members of the public they serve. Some of the worst examples take place on social media, where people are tweeting in an official capacity, for all to see.

The Home Office worker in your second grab was giving a caller the correct by-the-book information, rather than directing that caller in a disingenuous way so their complaint would disappear. She may have commiserated with the caller in so doing, but her actions and directions were correct and honest: whenever there is a media push around 'illegal migrants' it only creates fear, uncertainty and doubt amongst those of us who have migrated here to live. It can be measured in polls of those affected. There's also the small matter of the complainant's perspective in relating the conversation.

As to the voting thing, Labour need only look at its reduced majority post-Iraq if they really want to know where all the votes went.

Also only an idiot would fail to recognise the difference between one employee going privately off-message and the government effectively changing the remit of the institution so its job is to street-team partisan policies and spread deliberate face-saving misinformation. Obviously this happened under Labour as well but has arguably become worse as the importance of social media has grown.

I've never voted in a general election. Even way back in the day when I was a least a little interested in who was going to govern the country voting would have been pointless because of the constituency in which I live. Even in '97 when Blair was sweeping the nation the Conservatives won by more than 24% over the LibDems here. I probably would have voted under PR at some point in the last 20 years. Now, I'm not so sure.

I object when what are supposed to be impartial civil servants post clearly partisan things on social media, or mouth off in statements.

"Impartiality" in the civil service is not about not taking sides, but about supporting the government of the day regardless of their political persuasion or policies. Supporting policies you disagree with goes with the job.

This line does cloud things though

"You must not:
• act in a way that unjustifiably favours or discriminates against particular individuals or interests."

Dunno how you do that and impartially implement government policy when the policy favours and/or discriminates.

Support as in 'provide administrative structure' - fine. Partisan notions of support, eg 'that's my team', not so much.

My prob is that the constituency I'm in is shared with a town that I've only ever visited once and involves a reasonable drive through country lanes to get to.

Well yes and no, even in the press office you support the government, not necessarily the party in power, so there are limits to what you can and can't support even then, especially if Tory policy clashes with coalition policy, or you're promoting a policy that won't come into force until after the election.

This is a slightly dodgy one because govt policy has been shown to be illegal, and the aim of the communications is solely to make it look like the govt hasn't lost the case.

@Ed_Miliband
Red sox champions in 2004, 2007 and now 2013. First time winning world series at home since 1918 #redsox

He's a big US sports fan and went to school in Boston for a time.

Boston, Lincolnshire

Grant Shapps writes to Ed Miliband urging him to "condemn" tactics alleged to have been used by Unite union against Ineos

Cunts.

If Mili has any sense, he'll ignore that cretin. It still amazes me that his lovely older brother (the one in Big Audio Dynamite) shares genetic material with such a flaming arsehole.

it's the senior managers from Ineos who are the real victims here *wipes away tear*

the one in Big Audio Dynamite

Come again?

Wikip has it that Mick Jones is his cousin.

Ah!

Not voting for minority parties you broadly agree with further delegitimises the system by entrenching the power of the main parties.

Exactly. Voting for any party involves taking a leap and accepting that they'll disappoint you in some ways but it's worth supporting them because you share broad values. And that doesn't mean voting Labour if that sticks in your craw - there are other options.

I'm in Athens at the moment reporting on the Greek political situation and it makes more extreme claims itt about the "illegitimacy" of UK democracy look silly tbh. In Greece the disillusioned young left have the courage to make a choice, whether that be Syriza or the non-voting anarchists. Of course the political culture is very different, and perhaps only a desperate situation makes such choices both available and necessary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_Nb-XgTAzw

xps Grant's older brother Adrian Shapps plays with his cousin in BAD.

Andre Shapps hasn't been in BAD for sixteen years, and only joined in the "Big Audio" era, post-BAD II.

Oops, André. Been years since I've seen him - he was friends with an ex-ILXor. Now he's some sort of pierced steampunk.

Poor sod... being Grant Shapps' brother that is, not being a pierced steampunk, though now you come to mention it

Does he ever get mistaken for Grant?