Grateful Dead live, Dick's Picks etc - S&D

I know it's cliche as hell to say so in regards to the Dead, but it's just astonishing how much better the live performances of most of the tunes are in comparison their studio counterparts.

I mean, I used to hate 'Uncle John's Band', but that seems like it was because I'd never heard a live rendition before.

Those harmonies! The Garcia/Weir live vocal harmonies have to be some of the most underrated of all time. The version of 'UJ'sB' on that Fillmore East set I just picked is just magnificent in that regard.

i'm generally on board with the notion that live is better, but not for workingman's dead or american beauty. even for the others, if i prefer live i still like some studio dead quite a whole lot

Has anyone else heard Dick's Picks #16 (11/8/69)? I'm curious if late '69 is considered crapulent, or if this is just an off night. It does have my favorite "Feedback" ever, but the rest, wow, the songs are barely holding together, and not in a fun way.

Dick's Picks 16 is a weird one. Some of the best noise jams the Dead ever laid down but HOLY SHIT I can't find the stop button fast enough once the encore cover of "Hey Jude" starts up.

I don't think "Hey Jude" is on that; it's on another Fillmore East dealie (not a Pick of Dick's). And yeah, it's horrendous.

oh my bad

the dead consistently did terrible beatles covers all through the years

Yeah, doing covers of songs where the focus is on the singing wasn't the best strategy for a band whose vocals were an afterthought.

the last time I saw them they opened with "rain" and it was so bad that i had wiped it from my memory until i finally listened to a tape the show this summer.

Do you think they thought they were good singers? I always wonder that, because you don't wind up with four singers in your band, none of whom can sing, unless it's on purpose.

I just don't think they gave it much thought when they didn't have to. On their studio records (and for the overdubbing on Europe '72), they obviously put a lot of effort into the vocals (relatively speaking).

But live, for one thing, they rarely listened to their live tapes (unless I have that wrong, but I know Phil and Bob have said things along the lines of "ugh, I never listen to those!")

So unless they realized in the moment how weak and off-key the singing was (which, given their drug intake, I'm going to assume they didn't), there wasn't anything that needed to be fixed. You always hear members of the Dead reference good nights and bad nights purely in instrumental terms; I've never read/heard a single interview where one of them said, "Oof, some nights the singing is really off!"

i think i've read quotes from them saying they really wanted to sound like CSN but could never sing things the same way twice.

Do you think they thought they were good singers? I always wonder that, because you don't wind up with four singers in your band, none of whom can sing, unless it's on purpose.

― Humorist (horse) (誤訳侮辱), Monday, December 9, 2013 3:46 PM (27 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

There's no way Phil Lesh thought he could sing. No way.

I just realised with DP16 that I tend to go for the 2nd 2 discs and not the first which I think I would tend to do anyway. Normally go for the jam section instead of the shorter song one when I listen to a dead live set that isn't on disc so maybe that's why I'm not dismissive of it.
I stuck disc 2 on my walkman I think.

I really enjoy DP16, but I've read a few negative reviews of it. My enjoyment of live Dead recordings is tied to how well they perform st stephen->the eleven, and DP16 has a fantastic Eleven. Am I the only one who hears this song as free jazz extrapolation of "Joy to the World"? Probably...

So unless they realized in the moment how weak and off-key the singing was (which, given their drug intake, I'm going to assume they didn't), there wasn't anything that needed to be fixed. You always hear members of the Dead reference good nights and bad nights purely in instrumental terms; I've never read/heard a single interview where one of them said, "Oof, some nights the singing is really off!

Well, if you believe Bob Weir, Donna was fired because she wasn't hitting the notes.

So unless they realized in the moment how weak and off-key the singing was (which, given their drug intake, I'm going to assume they didn't), there wasn't anything that needed to be fixed. You always hear members of the Dead reference good nights and bad nights purely in instrumental terms; I've never read/heard a single interview where one of them said, "Oof, some nights the singing is really off!

Well, if you believe Bob Weir, Donna was fired because she wasn't hitting the notes.

― Jimmywine Dyspeptic, Tuesday, December 10, 2013 1:24 AM (8 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Donna wasn't also an instrumentalist though, which would probably factor in.
& it seems that she couldn't hear herself onstage in the early years, would think that would have been corrected by 1974 though with the wall of sound. But not sure how that worked in terms of individual players being monitored in a way that meant they could hear themselves individually properly.
& she was the one member of the band that actually was a professional singer, having done session work elsewhere.

http://deadessays.blogspot.ie/2009/08/crowded-dead-stage-1967-1975.html
List of live guests that somebody just linked to on Dime.

I caught something off a local college station the other morning which sounded like Etta James fronting the Dead. Turns out that's exactly what it was (with the Tower of Power horns, too). It was fine -- Etta sounded great, the Dead a bit less so, given that it was '82 or '83 -- but at the end she said "Give 'em a big hand! The best rhythm & blues band in the world!" I love the Dead, but...no.

that was on one of the first dead tapes I was ever gifted. was a NYE show iirc.

Well, if you believe Bob Weir, Donna was fired because she wasn't hitting the notes.

^thank god Jerry could play guitar then. I mean the guy couldnt remember the lyrics half the time. Singing with the Dead was beside the point.

The best rhythm & blues band in the world!

AHAHAHA, thank you for my morning laugh! They did about the worst Chuck Berry covers I've ever heard.

Yeah, some of the '50s rock and roll covers they did were just awful. Country tunes, on the other hand....

re: Donna, I think the problem was she was the only on-pitch singer in a band with four other off-pitch singers. By comparison, she sounded like the one who was off.

And yeah, their rock 'n' roll covers rarely, if ever, worked.

I was listening to 11/9/79 Buffalo last night and the second set clicked with me in a really, really big way. The run of "Prophet", "He's Gone" > "Drums" > "Space" > "Wharf Rat" was gorgeous.

And yeah, their rock 'n' roll covers rarely, if ever, worked.
Well...they kinda made "Not Fade Away" their own. And the set with Bo Diddley guesting is pretty solid!

It' weird, because one of the things that got me into the Dead at all was the JGB's version of "Don't Let Go." Jerry actually could effectively sing (his own take on) R&B when he was on.

Pigpen too, but I'm not a big fan of his vocals or that era.

lol at etta, i'll have to hear that one.

There's a review in I think Mojo Navigator, Greg Shaw's mid 60s zine saying that the 1st s/t lp is the most authentic r'n'b lp since the Stones' debut. Definitely in one of the 2 Bomp compilation books.

Jerry always identified himself as a guitar player. Even songwriting was a distant 2nd job in his mind, what he really did was play guitar. Through the 70s and a little into the early 80s I think he often sang quite well, he had a sweet voice if a little thin. He forgot a lot of lyrics but was mostly on-key. He sang even better with Jerry Band it seems like, maybe he knew he had to carry it.

I never really liked Bob's voice very much, though I do like a good number of his songs. They gave him too many gruff rocker covers.

Donna often sounded really bad, people mention the monitor thing, but she really just had a big issue with pitch, period. I never really minded her presence but I can't say she ever improved a song for me.

Phil was a different thing entirely. Everyone on this thread can sing better than Phil. Meaning we all have a "Box of Rain" in us.

Interesting piece on the history (and current restoration) of the Betty Boards:
http://www.relix.com/articles/detail/whats_become_of_the_bettys

yeah kind of cool, though jesus christ, if there's one band that could probably take it easy with the archival digs...

looks like this explains why no official release of Cornell?

yeah kind of cool, though jesus christ, if there's one band that could probably take it easy with the archival digs...

I will have been dead for fifty years and Weir will have been dead for seventy and they'll still be releasing live albums from the mid-seventies

it's kind of awesome

Yeah I will admit to being pretty deep in the hole as far as live dead goes. Seems like I can't go a couple days without firing up something from archive .org. And as everyone knows there is no better driving music than live shows from 72.

And as everyone knows there is no better driving music than live shows from 72.

ha, i know, why is that?

perfect ratio of choogle to jam?

^^^ new screen name! I kinda never listen to the Dead until this thread reactivates and prompts me. 3-21-90 this morning (Ontario). They segued Crazy Fingers into Cumberland Blues, not altogether successfully, but A for effort.

And as everyone knows there is no better driving music than live shows from 72.

truthbomb of all truthbombs. like I have specific drivetime connections to specific '72 shows

yeah i don't even really like long drives, but putting on europe 72 in the car makes me want to go until it's over.

I got in the car the other day and Europe 72 was cranked from when my wife had been driving the day before, she was adamant that it was best possible driving music

I have logged many miles listening to Europe 72.

do ppl have a fave date on the Europe 72 tour? i like the final night at the lyceum - smokin 'morning dew' - tho' they didn't do dark star

Out of the four releases I have from that tour I prefer the Hundred Year Hall collection from Germany. That is one of the better "The Other Ones" I think out there. The Europe '72 Vol.2 has a really good "Dark Star".

I don't have a copy of Europe 72 in my truck, but I do have a CDR of Live Dead that has gotten quite a few plays on the road.

Great 'Loser' on Europe '72 Vol. 2, as well. One for the repeat button for me.

Dusseldorf (aka Rockin' The Rhein) is my go-to '72 date. Shows that start with "Truckin'" tend to rule, and Godchaux is at his most Cecil Taylor-esque in "Dark Star."

was just listening to Hundred Year Hall (in the car, of course) -- it is extremely solid throughout.

I like their early rock and r&b covers. So this is pretty 70s electric jazz-vibey like it says, right? Appealing. Hermes' Rolling Stone review invokes Miles Davis:
http://www.dead.net/store/1970s/daves-picks-volume-9-harry-adams-field-house-u-montana-51474-cd
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/albumreviews/daves-picks-volume-9-20140307

74 is def the peak of their jazz fusion flirtation, especially on things like 'weather report suite' and 'eyes of the world'