hall of fame, next vote...

how is clemens easily the best when mussina's OPS is like 90 pts lower?

it's a meaningless sample anyway

Zach's right, didn't look closely enough--I thought Clemens took the first and last.

I guess it's a relatively small sample, but Clemens and Maddux both had the equivalent of a full season, Mussina slightly less so. I wouldn't say meaningless--with 1100 PA between them, I'd feel confident saying that Mussina and Clemens had a knack for fighting back from 3-0 counts. Palmer's famous thing of not giving up a grand slam is a much smaller sample, 213 PA. (Something that surprises me. Knowing Palmer never gave up a grand slam, I always assumed that being extra careful to the point of paranoia, he probably walked a higher-than-usual number of guys in such situations. No--in those 213 bases-loaded PA, he walked 13...and only gave up five doubles and a triple. His line: .196/.230/.234.)

Palmer pitched to the basepaths (sorta not kidding).

Maybe--I'll have to check if he had any errant pickoff throws.

Sorry bad joke. I meant that he pitched based on how many people were on (which obviously in some sense all pitchers do). It was a play on Morris "pitch to the score" thing.

I got the joke, and it was good. I was trying to return serve...

I'm slow on the uptake at 7am apparently haha.

Always loved the little-kid aspect to Thomas.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/dam/assets/140109153134-frank-thomas-ap2-single-image-cut.jpg

Lawrence Rocca
Honorary
Morris Nomo Raines Trammell

Finding old videos of Thomas, Glavine and Maddux is really difficult.

even on mlb.com? don't they have an archive page?

they do, but it's incredibly user-unfriendly. they have a lot of cool stuff, too! it's a shame they can't figure out how to organize it and make it more easily searchable.

I refuse to vote for a guy who cheats, as Biggio did with all that armor on his arm, so he could get hit with pitches and trot to first base as a result. He made no attempt to avoid getting hit and actually stuck that arm out further, inducing the ball to smack him.

That, my friends, is against the rules and umpires should be calling that shit a ball, but they don’t. I once asked umpire John McSherry about that, and he skirted around the question, never answering it.

http://www.kenstewartphoto.net/dowling_drivel_blog/?p=4208

That's a pretty schizophrenic ballot.

lol

that isn't biggio cheating, it's biggio taking advantage of umpires who don't care. legit concern! i wish the rule was enforced. but i also don't think a dude willingly getting hit by 90+mph baseballs is ever selfish

also palmer DID allow a grand slam once (as people like to remind him) -- but the game was rained out

sry for the dumb bump was gone all weekend

nomo to the japanese hof

Hall of Fame announces cap selections for 2014 inductees:

Cox & Glavine: Braves
Thomas: White Sox
Torre: Yankees
La Russa & Maddux: No logo

is this purely the hall's decision or do the players get to choose?

They used to get to choose but then it turned into this weird courting ritual between the teams so the league stepped in.

I was totally in suspense over whether that choker Glavine wd have a Mets cap

Maddux not going in as a Brave? I don't get that at all.

the idea that one team must be picked is outdated and silly tbh

yeah the put the clamp down when there was talk boggs agreed to put tampa on his hall of fame plaque for a bonus and they took that privilege away from the inductees. i think clemens had announced he was going in as a yankee also though that wasn't quite as outrageous.

I'm not saying that one team must be picked in all cases, but this particular case makes little sense. Objectively, that is--I've read a little more, and seems it was Maddux's call. (I thought MLB made the call ever since Winfield tried to turn it into a bidding war.) If Maddux feels special gratitude towards the Cubs, that's fine. But if I were a Braves fan, I wouldn't like it.

Right--it was Boggs. It was Winfield who partly wanted to stick it to Steinbrenner (which I totally understand).

obviously maddux's best years were with the braves, but he spent less than half his career there. it should about celebrating the whole career, and making a fuss about choosing one slights the rest

Well, we'll have to disagree on this one. If Andrew McCutchen has another seven or eight great seasons with the Pirates, wins a couple more MVPs, then signs a big contract with the Yankees and finally wins a World Series, I hope you'll be as understanding if he decides to go into the HOF as a Yankee one day.

frank robinson played six seasons for the orioles and went in as an O, there was never really any question about it. those weren't even his best six years! but it still made sense.

i'd want mccutchen to go in with no single associated team, is the point.

skip the insignia, just have the dreads

Guess I'm more of a homer on this particular point. I know I would have been really disappointed had Alomar decided to go in as an Indian, and assuming Halladay goes in, I'll be disappointed if he opts for the Phillies--and there are stronger cases to be made there than with Maddux, I think.

Neyer's got a column up that clarifies whose decision it is: basically the player's, unless it's something patently ridiculous like with Boggs. At that point, the league will step in.

Also, yes, Frank Robinson is an Oriole to me, although that's largely because he was an Oriole when I started watching baseball. If I were five to ten years older, I might think differently (or might not).

what team would you choose for tlr?

Foam dome

LaRussa, I don't think you can--he's definitely a case where I agree with having no affiliation. (On a personal level, I know I most liked hating him as an A.)

If Maddux feels special gratitude towards the Cubs, that's fine. But if I were a Braves fan, I wouldn't like it.

― clemenza, Thursday, January 23, 2014 7:25 PM (1 hour ago)

I would have preferred Braves just for the Cox/Glav/Mad Dog induction solidarity, but I'm ok with his choice and his rationale. And I'm much less a Braves homer than I was this time last year.

fuck the braves imo

i still ride for 90s braves so im shook about this tbh

it's cool, i'm sure terry pendleton will go in as a brave

You're right that Maddux spent less than half his career with the Braves--11 seasons with, 12 seasons elsewhere. He did pitch more than half his innings with the Braves, though (2,526.2 - 2,481.2), and of course won more than half his games there (194 - 161).

"those weren't even [Frank Robinson's] best six years! but it still made sense."

Uh his first year with them he was a Triple Crown MVP winner and they won their first World Series. I'd say it makes sense.

I find it likewise puzzling that Maddux isn't going in with anything but the screamin Indian, but otherwise I'm with balls.

Didn't even realize that Frank Robbie played for anyone else BUT the O's! I'm also continually surprised whenever I re-learn, every few years, that he also managed the Giants.

...and Indians (first black mgr)

Stop blowing my mind, man.

I only saw him play (in the flesh) for the Dodgers! (1972)

"those weren't even [Frank Robinson's] best six years! but it still made sense."

Uh his first year with them he was a Triple Crown MVP winner and they won their first World Series. I'd say it makes sense.

― One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Friday, January 24, 2014 9:05 AM (10 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i... said it made sense

they still weren't his best years

Someone on High Heat Stats calculated harmonic-mean WARs for notable two-league players, and Frank was #1 by a comfortable margin (50.8, more than 10 games ahead of George Davis at #2). Beltran sits at #6 right now (31.4), Beltre at #7 (31.3).