Bitcoins

yeah thatd be cool but it does nothing for the viability of bitcoin

im quite sure theres a shitload of other costly infrastructure that would have to be worked into that equation too, real life will intrude upon the beautiful logarithm

bitcoin, massively open online education... what other deeply stupid shit have genius technologists attempting to disrupt industries they no nothing about come up with recently

its not zero cost my god how many times do you have to have this pointed out to you

This is a fair point. If you don't want to be exposed to Bitcoin currency fluctuations, you can't keep your money in Bitcoins, so the cost of any one transaction is the sum of (1) fees to convert your currency to Bitcoin plus bid-ask spread, (2) transaction fee associated with the Bitcoin transaction itself, and (3) fees + spread to convert back to currency on the other end. This is probably not negligible, but still could end up being less than an international wire (I have no idea how much those cost) and possibly more convenient too. I do think this will probably just motivate international wire services to improve their service and cut fees, but if so that's a win-win for everyone (except I guess people who have their life savings in Bitcoin).

― o. nate, Wednesday, January 22, 2014 11:48 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I think this is right, except I disagree that international wire services necessarily could just cut fees to compete. Maybe, maybe not. At some point it's not profitable for them to do so anymore. They have high overhead.

and bitcoiin related businesses would have to have high overhead to compete with them on service, the part of bitcoin thats "zero cost" transferring the funds is also effectively zero cost for for the wire services

I'm still struggling to see any legit use for Bitcoin that doesn't involve doing something illegal or on shaky legal ground. I really wish it was around for the 2004-2006 poker boom.

Isn't the most attractive thing for most people in the short term that it relatively keeps climbing in value per coin? And it's only doing so because it's a fad. Beyond that I don't get why it exists.

it exists cause theyre gonna end the tyranny of taxation lol

No, dogecoin will.

if anything though this whole experiment seems to be exposing the libertarian viewpoint as less "fuck the upper class because nobody should have that much power" and more "fuck the upper class because I'm not one of them"

this is news to me that libertarians hate the upper class

anyone here interested in making a joke currency? (or has dogecoin already claimed all the jokes)

im interested in making a joke illegal marketplace where i steal all the bitcoins

Trader Jokes

Editor’s note: Marc Andreessen’s gigantic pointed skull is full of bitcoins

― lag∞n, Wednesday, January 22, 2014 4:21 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

my coworker just glanced over at my screen to see why i was http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/1002961/muttley-laugh-o.gif'ing so hard

srsly that photo doesnt even tell the whole story my god

http://i.forbesimg.com/media/lists/people/marc-andreessen_416x416.jpg

thats his real head

http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/5179166eeab8ead044000002-480/marc-andreessen-google-glass.jpg

http://31.media.tumblr.com/6fc637cb157ae0d005971bb062c32e94/tumblr_mive8mkWss1rj7luco1_400.jpg

bitcoin is prob an alien currency

reddit alien

if his whole argument = bitcoin is low fees, its super disingenny for him to be like, well, everyone will use services that convert BTC into regular currency anyway

dont those things charge fees? if not how do they exist

also isnt this:

Finally, I’d like to address the claim made by some critics that Bitcoin is a haven for bad behavior, for criminals and terrorists to transfer money anonymously with impunity. This is a myth, fostered mostly by sensationalistic press coverage and an incomplete understanding of the technology. Much like email, which is quite traceable, Bitcoin is pseudonymous, not anonymous. Further, every transaction in the Bitcoin network is tracked and logged forever in the Bitcoin blockchain, or permanent record, available for all to see. As a result, Bitcoin is considerably easier for law enforcement to trace than cash, gold or diamonds.

completely going against the mythology of bitcoin? kind of stunning that he would say that tbh

its all logged with perfectly anonymous numbered accounts and there are services specifically for confounding attempts to trace bitcoins back to particular transactions

xpost from the other thread great article about the silk road dude

Hence Bitcoin’s wry new nickname in legal circles: “Prosecution Futures.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/19/business/eagle-scout-idealist-drug-trafficker.html

― lag∞n, Wednesday, January 22, 2014 2:34 AM (17 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Feel like Marc Andresseeeen would do really well in a cycling competition. His wind resistance must be close to 0

https://bitcoin.app.net

My bank charges me $15 for international wire transfers (flat fee) and obviously I'm paying the spread as well, it's not a very competitive rate

I think xe.com offers really competitive rates but I've never really researched it

I don't really see how remittance through bitcoin would be cheaper than an online-only exchange service that didn't have to worry about the cost of B&M overhead like banks do

ya like what INTRINSICALLY is cheaper about providing a bitcoin service

it saves money by not providing fraud protection/dispute resolution why dont u see

Spent five weeks in HK this year and since I had a bank account there I decided to transfer a couple thousand in cash to 'save money'

Ended up finding a place that operated out of the 17th floor of a room that beat my bank's exchange rate by at least 5 points

Also used a credit card w/ no foreign exchange rate, its rate ended up being the same as my bank's rate, without a $15 charge

Felt pretty silly, should have just brought straight cash and exchanged it at the 17th floor place

Point being that if a tiny little place operating out of an apartment in HK can beat bank rates with ease then I'm sure xe.com or w/e can too

Also best part about the place is 1.) they are called the Berlin Currency Exchange and 2.) their website is a blogspot http://bcel1985.blogspot.hk/

its kinda funny how these computer dudes dont even realize theyve strayed way far from their area of expertise

a credit card w/ no foreign exchange rate

Sorry should be no foreign exchange fee

I don't really see how remittance through bitcoin would be cheaper than an online-only exchange service that didn't have to worry about the cost of B&M overhead like banks do

― 龜, Wednesday, January 22, 2014 7:56 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ya like what INTRINSICALLY is cheaper about providing a bitcoin service

― socki (s1ocki), Wednesday, January 22, 2014 8:04 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Because ordinary banks and international money transfer services don't have a way to, like, magically make money disappear and reappear halfway around the world. They rely on massive international transfer networks that handle settlements. Not to mention that there are lots of licensing and regulatory costs (I'm not making the libertarian argument here, I'm just trying to answer a question). You CAN'T just be like "hey, I'mma start a money transfer website out of my garage, boom."

I mean bitcoins basically travel through the internet on their own. Ordinary money doesn't actually do that, even though it sometimes feels like it does.

Bitcoin -> real currency exchanges would be subject to the same licensing and regulatory costs, no?

Isn't that the hook that the Feds are using to clamp down on Bitcoin exchanges

it saves money by not providing fraud protection/dispute resolution why dont u see

― lag∞n, Wednesday, January 22, 2014 8:09 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

that's true too, but like 1/2 of the reason (note, I am not saying all of the reason) for fraud protection on credit cards in the first place does not apply to bitcoin, namely that someone who gets your credit card info can make additional purchases on your card.

xp currency exchange costs perhaps yes, if the govt decides to regulate it (which yeah they probably should), but perhaps not the cost of going through international settlement networks, which, to be honest, I have no idea what the costs are and I don't think any of us do.

What mandates that a currency exchange operator has to go through an international settlement network tho?

pretty questionable to make a cycling joke when the high diving joke was so crucial to the coneheads lols imo xpost

I am no expert on this, but I thought you needed a way to actually transfer the money from entity A in the US to entity B in hong kong or wherever. I don't think you can just have the guy at one office call the other office and say "We're straight now, Moneyz X-Change now has $1000 less on its books, and Moneyz X-Change Hong Kong now has $1000 more." I mean otherwise you could just make money appear out of thin air.

xposts

I'm guessing that most of the costs associated with a wire transfer are in the origination and termination rather than in the actual transfer. So unless you can go an buy a loaf of bread with bitcoin you're still stuck with those and given that these costs are somewhat uniform irrespective of the amount transferred small transfers are going to be penalised proportionately.

that's not to say that BTC can't carve out a niche and challenge incumbent platforms. There are already mechanisms outside of traditional banks, the Hawala system for one.

At the moment I feel like someone has the opportunity to use bit coin as the basis for a lyca mobile or corner shop phone card of money transfer systems.

Hmm isn't the simplest way just to have Entity A hold both HKD and USD and make appropriate additions/deductions as necessary

Not an expert in this either, I guess you're saying the international settlement network works as some sort of verifier? xp

Are you talking about a single currency-exchange shop or an international remitter? A storefront exchange can just keep USD and HKD and keep track via bookkeeping. But if you're talking about actually sending money overseas, that's different. Yes, it's basically a verifier, is my understanding.

And remember even the same company in two different countries generally involves different entities.

I'm sort of thinking of an online only shop that you'd keep bank account info from your HK bank and your US bank in, and you'd do the whole thing online - a virtual storefront exchange ; )

I suppose that you'd want some sort of guarantee that the place would be relatively liquid in all the currencies it trades in

xp Yeah, not sure if not having a physical presence in a territory would still require separate entities

But anyway seems to me that the only advantage of bitcoin is that bitcoin, as an intermediate holding unit, is a self-verifier so you can bypass the international settlement network

But you'd be opening yourself up to a bunch of other dangers. Are your accounts insured against theft/fraud, for example

Because ordinary banks and international money transfer services don't have a way to, like, magically make money disappear and reappear halfway around the world.

― signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Wednesday, January 22, 2014 8:46 PM (33 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah just wait until they get computers its gonna change everything

I am no expert on this

― signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Wednesday, January 22, 2014 9:02 PM (19 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

mm