Cro-Mags, classic or dud

Bands like this were a dime-a-dozen in the Lehigh Valley while I was working for the entertainment section of the local newspaper. They were all roughly as shitty as the Cro-Mags, some slightly less, some slightly more, usually less tattoo'd. Quite naturally, they were fond of collecting in crowds of about 200-250 at the Airport Music Hangar to fight. The strip club next door -- Irv's BYOB -- routinely drew more. At the end of the night, the two squad cars patrolling the lot would not be picking up the drunks coming out of Irv's, but the pointless brawlers coming out of the Music Hangar, who would continue to fight in the parking lot.

Let's see -- who were the poor poor man's Cro-Mags who were the tops of these bills? Murphy's Law, Agnostic Front, Mucky Pup.

Yeah, but how many (good or otherwise) bands really know what they're doing, while they're doing it?

The band that beat all of these in lasting cred, regionally in that section of the NY-metro-Jersey-eastern shore of PA, was Overkill.

Overkill is still a draw in Allentown. They seem to have made thirty or forty records, most out of print, but with always about five in. I think they opened almost every non-commercial heavy metal show at Lehigh's Stabler Arena over a period of about two to three years in the Eighties. I saw them countless times and, singularly, can't remember any of their tunes. Heck, I remember DD Verni's spinoff joke band, the Bronx Casket Company, much better.

Overkill would always be on the bills with Slayer, Danzig and Motorhead. They were a true journeyman iron man act, the kind that could go on, and no matter how cannibalistic the audience, not wilt.
Oscar Bonavena's of metal.

but what about the Cro-Magnons?!

Yes, what about them?

SO GOOD.

Yeesh...I mean, to each their own, but...yeesh. I'll take the Zero Boys or Angry Samoans or Necros or the Huskers or B-Flag or Flipper or, uh, most hardcore bands I guess over those guys anyday. I really like the idea of taking something so simplified and so restrictive and then making it musical and distinctive almost in spite of itself, so I don't really agree with your "more generic=better" theory.

By the way, just let me note that I fucking love hardcore threads on ILM.

None, probably. But how does that make *Land Speed Record* or the first Die Kruezen album or *What Makes a Man Start Fires?* (or *Back From Samoa* or *Damaged* or *Group Sex* or the first Meat Puppets album or whatever) something other than hardcore, though? I don't want to argue with you; I just always assume that *everybody* considered those hardcore records. I thought that was just accepted; it never occured to me that anybody thought the dumbass lummox third-or-fourth-generation dime-a-dozen new york tattoed-thug moron stuff was the *only* hardcore out there. That's just crazy, Phil!

Can we just agree to disagree on what "hardcore" means and not upset the Cro-Mags fans on this thread? I apologize myself for my stream on "hardcore", the term, here.

I am just curious what Phil's definition CONSISTS of, that's all. It's a new one for me, you know? Like, when does he think hardcore started? As I said, I won't argue with him. I am just CURIOUS is all.

*does weird hand motions and mumbles some tantric bs*

Ok, it is done.

Anyway, when I hear the word "hardcore," I think of what it meant when I was in high school (Westfield, NJ class of 1990 because I repeated freshman year). And that means Gorilla Biscuits, Judge, Sick Of It All, Warzone, Breakdown, Cro-Mags, Killing Time, Leeway, etc., etc., etc. All that other stuff is/was just "punk," and shall ever be thus in my brain.

they may be punk to you, phil, but husker du, black flag, bad brains WERE hardcore bands. until they weren't. they helped to invent it.

having said that, i really want the new judge comp. and the bold comp.

As I remember it (and you may beg to differ), "hardcore" is to "punk" what the rectangle is to the square (i.e. a rectangle is always a square, but a square is not always a rectangle).

Yes, what about them?

they exist, right? I remember trying to find a Cro-Mags album and came upon a Cro-Magnon album, total primitive ruckus. Quite the shockah

actually you got this backwards, alex!

and they are all quadrilaterals, too.

but let's not even get into trapezoids, trapeziums, and paralellograms, ok?

Ah, so I have, Chuck. Figures. I was an English major, alas.

(ok, i'm outta this thread for good today. But i couldn't resist)

Anyway, when I hear the word "hardcore," I think of what it meant when I was in high school (Westfield, NJ class of 1990 because I repeated freshman year). And that means Gorilla Biscuits, Judge, Sick Of It All, Warzone, Breakdown, Cro-Mags, Killing Time, Leeway, etc., etc., etc. All that other stuff is/was just "punk," and shall ever be thus in my brain.

-- pdf (newyorkisno...), July 7th, 2005.

i told y'all it was a generational thing! FWIW whenever i think of "hardcore" i think of the straight edge kids in high school with earth crisis tatoos.

If he lasts ten years. People with tatoos of this nature on their faces are basically either frankly psychotic or plagued by severe underlying mental problems. Just like the occasional young man geek I see in the LA Times about once every two years -- described as having an obscenity or slightly less tattoo'd on his face, anything, really, that says, "Look at me, I am a troublesome and brainless fuck and I want you to know it."

The rider that comes with the story: They either just came out of prison or are waiting to permanently be sent into prison. Reminds of the scene in "Papillon," when McQueen and Hoffman stumble upon the guy with his eyes and upper face covered with a tattoo. They're clearly frightened. The guys asks, "Do you like my tatoo?" Not wishing to touch him off, they say, yes, it's wonderful. The guy, a recluse living by himself on an island, responds wryly, "I do, too. But I was drunk at the time."

The only exceptions are hermits with "fuck you" money or trust funds.

I know you've been waiting with bated breath:

Bassist Harley Flanagan has reached a settlement with singer John Joseph and drummer Mackie Jayson regarding ownership of the Cro-Mags name. Flanagan will now perform under the name Cro-Mags while Joseph and Jayson will perform as Cro-Mags “JM.”

See below for Harley’s full statement:

"After many years of confusion, rumor and dispute, I, John Joseph and Mackie Jayson have reached a settlement designed to avoid any further confusion about the Cro-Mags mark and band. I, as the founder of the band and bass player on all Cro-Mags albums (Age of Quarrel, Best Wishes, Alpha Omega, Near Death Experience and Revenge) will be performing as Cro-Mags going forward and have exclusive ownership of the name as such in all commercial purposes world-wide. There will be a three month transition during which time I will be performing as Cro-Mags and John and Mackie’s shows may still be advertised as Cro-Mags as they finalize their name change to CRO-MAGS “JM”. During this transition period, to confirm which band you want to see, please check on our websites or social media pages. As of August 1, 2019, all shows under the CRO-MAGS name (on its own) will feature me, and all of John and Mackie’s shows will be under the name CRO-MAGS “JM”. Thanks for your patience as we wrap this up. Now that we have come to an agreement, I look forward to continuing to deliver music from the entire Cro-Mags catalogue the fans have come to know and love, be able to perform live without confusion and continue to create new music with the distinctive sound that is Cro-Mags."

well that's all cleared up then

I, as the founder of the band and bass player on all Cro-Mags albums (Age of Quarrel, Best Wishes, Alpha Omega, Near Death Experience and Revenge the good one and the other four)