Yeah, and he actually had the nerve to say, “Well, I paid everybody double-scale.”
While taking the songwriting credits to himself
I knew Dave Marsh had a long-standing feud with Bono, didn't realize he had one versus Paul Simon as well
― curmudgeon, Monday, 27 January 2014 14:03 (ten years ago) link
he has long-standing feuds with Neil Young, God, everyone
― Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 27 January 2014 14:06 (ten years ago) link
Not with Bru$e.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 27 January 2014 14:22 (ten years ago) link
erm
Side one No. Title Writer(s) Length 1. "The Boy in the Bubble" Forere Motloheloa, Paul Simon 3:592. "Graceland" Simon 4:483. "I Know What I Know" General MD Shirinda, Simon 3:134. "Gumboots" Lulu Masilela, Jonhjon Mkhalali, Simon 2:445. "Diamonds on the Soles of Her Shoes" Joseph Shabalala, Simon 5:45Side two No. Title Writer(s) Length 6. "You Can Call Me Al" Simon 4:397. "Under African Skies" Simon 3:378. "Homeless" Shabalala, Simon 3:489. "Crazy Love, Vol. II" Simon 4:1810. "That Was Your Mother" Simon 2:5211. "All Around the World or the Myth of Fingerprints" Los Lobos, Simon 3:15
― lag∞n, Monday, 27 January 2014 14:26 (ten years ago) link
I remember the uncredited zydeco musicians and I thought Steve Berlin of Los Lobos grumbling about the credits. I think they all had to push Simon to get their names there.
― curmudgeon, Monday, 27 January 2014 14:41 (ten years ago) link
its true all those black south african musicians living under apartheid used all their clout and access to high powered legal representation to force paul simon to credit them
― lag∞n, Monday, 27 January 2014 14:55 (ten years ago) link
los lobos do have beef abt this, also he made them play drums?
― lag∞n, Monday, 27 January 2014 14:56 (ten years ago) link
I will dig up the quotes later
― curmudgeon, Monday, 27 January 2014 14:57 (ten years ago) link
thank God there's somebody to speak up for Paul Simon
― second set all dead boys covers (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Monday, 27 January 2014 14:58 (ten years ago) link
its all upthread fwiw
― lag∞n, Monday, 27 January 2014 14:58 (ten years ago) link
thank god for someone to speak up for everyone important work here all around
― lag∞n, Monday, 27 January 2014 14:59 (ten years ago) link
Thank you.
In 2009 someone wrote the following, so I am not completely wrong or senile, oh wise lagoon.Simon’s scrupulousness for sharing credit may not have extended equally to all musicians. The final track of the album, titled “The Myth of Fingerprints”, was recorded with Los Lobos, and while the band is credited as playing on the track, Simon claims authorship of the tune. Steven Berlin of Los Lobos claims that the song was written by the band, and that Simon simply added a vocal on top and stole the song. Simon disputes this, and Los Lobos haven’t taken Simon up on the invitation they allege he made to sue him.)
― curmudgeon, Monday, 27 January 2014 15:03 (ten years ago) link
i said right there lobos had beef with him about it im all over this thread talking about it I said u could find the infos upthread ffs man
― lag∞n, Monday, 27 January 2014 15:05 (ten years ago) link
I can call you betty and betty when you call me you can call me lag∞n
― second set all dead boys covers (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Monday, 27 January 2014 15:07 (ten years ago) link
deal
― lag∞n, Monday, 27 January 2014 15:07 (ten years ago) link
all the s african musicians who recorded and toured graceland seemed cool w breaking the boycott
Have you read up on this or do you need me to tell you why that alone didn't make it OK?
Striking thing about Simon's statements at the time, whether or not you think he was wrong, is his arrogance and condescension. Suddenly claiming "art transcends politics" when it suits him? Gtfo.
― Deafening silence (DL), Monday, 27 January 2014 15:07 (ten years ago) link
im totally not saying paul simon is a good and righteous person you morons
― lag∞n, Monday, 27 January 2014 15:09 (ten years ago) link
i mean don't let me get in the way of you being mad at paul simon
― lag∞n, Monday, 27 January 2014 15:12 (ten years ago) link
i don't believe personally art transends politics
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/1013031/paul-simon-on-the-muppets-o.gif
― christmas candy bar (al leong), Monday, 27 January 2014 15:13 (ten years ago) link
right before he does that he says "this guitar represents Art Garfunkel and all the people who've tried to fuck with me over the years." one of the harder episodes from mid-80s sesame street
― second set all dead boys covers (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Monday, 27 January 2014 15:15 (ten years ago) link
idk maybe the cultural boycott was overall worthwhile but it was undoubtably harsh in that it prevented a lot of people who were already vicitms of apartheid from even being able to work at all
― lag∞n, Monday, 27 January 2014 15:17 (ten years ago) link
actually, Gonzo was Carrie Fisher's divorce attorney
xp
― eclectic husbandry (Dr Morbius), Monday, 27 January 2014 15:18 (ten years ago) link
Interesting post here:
http://www.ethanzuckerman.com/blog/2009/04/02/from-protest-to-collaboration-paul-simons-graceland-and-lessons-for-xenophiles/
I guess on theory is that the credit he did give was a desperate attempt at political cover. But who knows?
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 27 January 2014 15:21 (ten years ago) link
who knows what lies in the dark heart of simon
― lag∞n, Monday, 27 January 2014 15:24 (ten years ago) link
lol though I'm not sure that dude's actually heard "do they know it's christmas"
And there won’t be snow in Africa this Christmas time The average gift they’ll get this year is life - See more at: http://www.ethanzuckerman.com/blog/2009/04/02/from-protest-to-collaboration-paul-simons-graceland-and-lessons-for-xenophiles/#sthash.UFyjohKY.dpuf
― second set all dead boys covers (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Monday, 27 January 2014 15:26 (ten years ago) link
God damn it
And there won’t be snow in Africa this Christmas time The average gift they’ll get this year is life
― second set all dead boys covers (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Monday, 27 January 2014 15:27 (ten years ago) link
(Personally, I think “Sun City” stands up to the test of time significantly better than many of the other benefit songs
yeah no
― Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 27 January 2014 15:27 (ten years ago) link
xp That's a valid criticism of artistic boycotts. My point is that Simon handled it really badly. He asked Belafonte for advice before he went. Belafonte suggested he talk to the ANC first and find a way to do it without hurting the boycott (which technically covered live performances, not recording in SA) and Simon ignored him. Then when it came to defending himself he wobbled between "art isn't political" (disingenuous, given his previous campaigning for eg McGovern), smearing the ANC and claiming he was actually helping SA. He was just too stubborn and arrogant to take other feelings into account.
― Deafening silence (DL), Monday, 27 January 2014 15:29 (ten years ago) link
Which is why Van Zandt's take is interesting. At this remove, it's hard to see how Graceland did any harm and it's a beloved album, so you need people who dealt with him at the time to point out what a dick he was about it.
― Deafening silence (DL), Monday, 27 January 2014 15:33 (ten years ago) link
former hippie liberals becoming cranky me-firsters to line their pockets, not exactly unheard of. I bet Paul is buds with the Clintons too.
― eclectic husbandry (Dr Morbius), Monday, 27 January 2014 15:33 (ten years ago) link
yeah he just wanted to jam man, it def seems like his approach was pretty self involved and willfully naive, but on the other hand he did it seems manage to conduct himself in a way that if it didn't comply with the letter of the boycott did with the spirit in that his work didn't benefit ruling regime, which is prob indicative of some greater awareness of the situation
― lag∞n, Monday, 27 January 2014 15:37 (ten years ago) link
― Deafening silence (DL), Monday, January 27, 2014 10:33 AM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yeah idk i would love for him to give a more comprehensive telling of the story, obvs this was very conversational
― lag∞n, Monday, 27 January 2014 15:39 (ten years ago) link
There are all sorts of stories of Simon's total cultural blindness and self-obsession. What's the one re: "Graceland" where he had never heard of zydeco? He's certainly an opportunist, but count me among those who think "Graceland" did far more good than harm. And after all, Simon never did play "Sun City."
xpost I'm not sure that post claims "Sun City" is a good song, but it's certainly miles better than "Hands Across America" and "We are the World." And at least it's an angry rallying cry, rather than "Do They Know Is Christmas?", which is a horribly patronizing sentiment. And it was inarguably more effective for these artists to publically boycott this South African resort than it was for a million others (and many of the same) to attempt to solve poverty and starvation in Ethiopia by way of song.
Some more details here: http://www.theguardian.com/music/2012/apr/19/paul-simon-graceland-acclaim-outrage
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 27 January 2014 15:43 (ten years ago) link
Meanwhile:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltpP6anAVVI
I have a friend who went, and she said it and the rest of the show were absolutely not well received by the lame crowd.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 27 January 2014 15:44 (ten years ago) link
nothing is better than hands across america the concept
― lag∞n, Monday, 27 January 2014 15:45 (ten years ago) link
Hear 'N Aid's "Stars" is still the best benefit song.
― EZ Snappin, Monday, 27 January 2014 15:45 (ten years ago) link
"Sun City" video was worth it for Bono kissing a Fat Boy
― eclectic husbandry (Dr Morbius), Monday, 27 January 2014 15:46 (ten years ago) link
http://www.mentalfloss.com/sites/default/legacy/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/reagan-hands-across-america.jpg
― Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 27 January 2014 15:48 (ten years ago) link
Never got the "Sun City" hate. Always loved that song. Can't think of any other record with nearly as mindblowing a lineup.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 27 January 2014 15:49 (ten years ago) link
Yeah, I mean, the fact that it embraced/enlisted so many hip-hop acts alone is pretty OTM.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 27 January 2014 15:54 (ten years ago) link
"We Are the World" is a terrible song too but it allows for the idiosyncracies of performers, first and second tier, while "Sun City" is just a blur with a beat.
― Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 27 January 2014 15:55 (ten years ago) link
See first post here: http://ourrockandrollhalloffame71305.yuku.com/topic/2076/And-The-2014-Inductee-Class-for-the-RRHoF-Is?page=3
― Here he is with the classic "Poème Électronique." Good track (Marcello Carlin), Monday, 27 January 2014 15:59 (ten years ago) link
The book "The Kingdom of Zydeco" has the story on Simon learning about zydeco, working with zydeco musicians, recording sessions with 3 zydeco bands and taping a Rocking Dopsie zydeco instrumental (that turned out to be based on an old Creole standard) and from that creating the credited just to Simon song "That was Your Mother"
The book discussion is in google books too
― curmudgeon, Monday, 27 January 2014 16:00 (ten years ago) link
so who should he have credited
― lag∞n, Monday, 27 January 2014 16:03 (ten years ago) link
the celeb benefit song is such a weird terrible format but sun city def has by far the coolest dudes in it
― lag∞n, Monday, 27 January 2014 16:04 (ten years ago) link
To get off the UN blacklist, all an artist had to do was make a public apology and promise never to play South Africa again. The O'Jays did this, but Ronstadt (and many others) didn't.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 27 January 2014 16:06 (ten years ago) link
x-post to Lagoon-- When Rockie Dopsie wanted credit on the song, that's when apparently Simon's label did research and discovered Dopsie had adapted it from an old Creole standard, and thus Simon made clear to Dopsie that he would lose in a suit. Don't some musicians when they adapt a traditional song, acknowledge that somehow in the credits?
― curmudgeon, Monday, 27 January 2014 16:11 (ten years ago) link
im no expert but id guess the answer is sometimes, but if its an old folk song then its authorship/ownership is communal really
― lag∞n, Monday, 27 January 2014 16:13 (ten years ago) link
i mean I'm sure it would've been cooler if simian credited him
― lag∞n, Monday, 27 January 2014 16:14 (ten years ago) link