Paul Simon's 'Graceland'

xp That's a valid criticism of artistic boycotts. My point is that Simon handled it really badly. He asked Belafonte for advice before he went. Belafonte suggested he talk to the ANC first and find a way to do it without hurting the boycott (which technically covered live performances, not recording in SA) and Simon ignored him. Then when it came to defending himself he wobbled between "art isn't political" (disingenuous, given his previous campaigning for eg McGovern), smearing the ANC and claiming he was actually helping SA. He was just too stubborn and arrogant to take other feelings into account.

Which is why Van Zandt's take is interesting. At this remove, it's hard to see how Graceland did any harm and it's a beloved album, so you need people who dealt with him at the time to point out what a dick he was about it.

former hippie liberals becoming cranky me-firsters to line their pockets, not exactly unheard of. I bet Paul is buds with the Clintons too.

yeah he just wanted to jam man, it def seems like his approach was pretty self involved and willfully naive, but on the other hand he did it seems manage to conduct himself in a way that if it didn't comply with the letter of the boycott did with the spirit in that his work didn't benefit ruling regime, which is prob indicative of some greater awareness of the situation

Which is why Van Zandt's take is interesting. At this remove, it's hard to see how Graceland did any harm and it's a beloved album, so you need people who dealt with him at the time to point out what a dick he was about it.

― Deafening silence (DL), Monday, January 27, 2014 10:33 AM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah idk i would love for him to give a more comprehensive telling of the story, obvs this was very conversational

There are all sorts of stories of Simon's total cultural blindness and self-obsession. What's the one re: "Graceland" where he had never heard of zydeco? He's certainly an opportunist, but count me among those who think "Graceland" did far more good than harm. And after all, Simon never did play "Sun City."

xpost I'm not sure that post claims "Sun City" is a good song, but it's certainly miles better than "Hands Across America" and "We are the World." And at least it's an angry rallying cry, rather than "Do They Know Is Christmas?", which is a horribly patronizing sentiment. And it was inarguably more effective for these artists to publically boycott this South African resort than it was for a million others (and many of the same) to attempt to solve poverty and starvation in Ethiopia by way of song.

Some more details here: http://www.theguardian.com/music/2012/apr/19/paul-simon-graceland-acclaim-outrage

Meanwhile:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltpP6anAVVI

I have a friend who went, and she said it and the rest of the show were absolutely not well received by the lame crowd.

nothing is better than hands across america the concept

Hear 'N Aid's "Stars" is still the best benefit song.

"Sun City" video was worth it for Bono kissing a Fat Boy

http://www.mentalfloss.com/sites/default/legacy/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/reagan-hands-across-america.jpg

Never got the "Sun City" hate. Always loved that song. Can't think of any other record with nearly as mindblowing a lineup.

Yeah, I mean, the fact that it embraced/enlisted so many hip-hop acts alone is pretty OTM.

"We Are the World" is a terrible song too but it allows for the idiosyncracies of performers, first and second tier, while "Sun City" is just a blur with a beat.

See first post here: http://ourrockandrollhalloffame71305.yuku.com/topic/2076/And-The-2014-Inductee-Class-for-the-RRHoF-Is?page=3

The book "The Kingdom of Zydeco" has the story on Simon learning about zydeco, working with zydeco musicians, recording sessions with 3 zydeco bands and taping a Rocking Dopsie zydeco instrumental (that turned out to be based on an old Creole standard) and from that creating the credited just to Simon song "That was Your Mother"

The book discussion is in google books too

so who should he have credited

the celeb benefit song is such a weird terrible format but sun city def has by far the coolest dudes in it

To get off the UN blacklist, all an artist had to do was make a public apology and promise never to play South Africa again. The O'Jays did this, but Ronstadt (and many others) didn't.

xp

x-post to Lagoon-- When Rockie Dopsie wanted credit on the song, that's when apparently Simon's label did research and discovered Dopsie had adapted it from an old Creole standard, and thus Simon made clear to Dopsie that he would lose in a suit. Don't some musicians when they adapt a traditional song, acknowledge that somehow in the credits?

im no expert but id guess the answer is sometimes, but if its an old folk song then its authorship/ownership is communal really

i mean I'm sure it would've been cooler if simian credited him

lol "simian"

hes an animal

rampaging the musical community devoting peoples writing credits

lol at van zandt getting simon off the assassination hit list, he is so connected

idk overall its interesting how much people hate paul simon, id say the case itt is at best half made and relies on some pretty weak sauce, a lot of not so coherent eye witness testimony, reward for lamest is forks claiming simon stole jimmy cliffs band (recorded a song with them) lol

btw i just discovered via wikipedia that whitney houstons mom sings back up on mother and child reunion!

she wrote the song too. simon never credited her though. "I don't give a fucking shit" he said when she complained

50 ways to lose the respect of your fellow artists

youre not seeing both sides tho he did it in order to motivate her to have a super cool daughter

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbhcMe4oN1A

paul simon is god and jesus literally

listened to this album 8 times today already. i don't care how it was made and how many people he was an asshole to, it's great.

its so magical

I don't want no part of this crazy love

would take any given 10 seconds of this album over all the holier-than-thou bullshit dave marsh has typed in his entire lifetime

paul and linda ronstadt sound nice on that one song, too bad they both owned beach front villas in sun city back in the 80s

The controversy makes an average album bearable imo

"Under African Skies" is the only track that I'd accuse of colonialism but it's so damn pretty, especially Rondstadt's vocal.

im going to kill u xp

i think the music of the album is great, but i think the production and simon's behaviour re: the boycott of south africa, etc, is at least a little problematic. any of you see the documentary that was recently-ish released about it?

also, bastard stole annie hall from alvy singer. NEVA FORGET.

and I can say wee-oooh-weee-oooh and for all practical purposes it would be legally binding
I mean for all practical and foreseeable purposes it'd be legally binding

annie hall was my favourite film when I was 16 and I didn't even know simon was in it! shame on me for a thousand years.

xpost

I saw the documentary p good and interesting, obvs portrays ps in a favorable light

More than the politics, I'm fascinated by Simon's ability to piss people off. He's not exactly Lou Reed or even Ray Davies but there's a prickly charmlessness which spoilt his live show for me and maybe explains why he made so enemies over Graceland. And yet he's the most extraordinarily humane and insightful lyricist - it doesn't add up.

unless someone else wrote them too

you're right, it doesn't add up.

my god. son of a bitch didn't even write the lyrics, did he?

Los Lobos wrote most of his best lyrics iirc

extraordinary artist, ordinary person