david brooks vs. thomas friedman vs. ross douthat

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"speaking out"

Minnesota isnt a town iirc

lag∞n, Sunday, 16 February 2014 18:41 (ten years ago) link

it's a village

mookieproof, Sunday, 16 February 2014 18:51 (ten years ago) link

it takes a village to create friedmans

Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 16 February 2014 18:52 (ten years ago) link

seven months pass...

unfuckingbelievable

zombie formalist (m coleman), Tuesday, 30 September 2014 12:12 (nine years ago) link

spiritual experiments led by the charismatic and the zealous are essential to religious creativity and fruitful change. From the Franciscans to the Jesuits, groups that looked cultlike to their critics have repeatedly revitalized the Catholic Church, and a similar story can be told about the role of charismatic visionaries in the American experience. (The enduring influence of one of the 19th century’s most despised and feared religious movements, for instance, is the reason the state of Utah now leads the United States on many social indicators.)

challenge for ross douthat: name fruitful change or innovation resulting from outliers jim jones, reverend moon, l-ron hubbard, chas manson

zombie formalist (m coleman), Tuesday, 30 September 2014 12:17 (nine years ago) link

this column is formulaic recycling, cherry-picked from others work (a time honored and lazy journalistic ploy when the till is empty come deadline). no surprise that douthat quotes philip jenkins who dismissed the 70s cult phenomena as hysteria fueled by secular media. i think jenkins argument is disingenuous and politically motivated. what's forgotten in this revisionist argument is the extreme psychological manipulation that was a defining characteristic of 70s-style charismatic cults. the human toll, lives ruined and personalities exploded, not to mention the suicide victims in jonestown who douthat somehow never mentions.

zombie formalist (m coleman), Tuesday, 30 September 2014 12:24 (nine years ago) link

what has happened, from the post-moon unification church to the second-string cult a relative of mine is involved with, seems to be a backing off from the sick controlling nature of the groups (due to decades of bad publicity) and a subsequent mainstreaming of former fringe elements.

zombie formalist (m coleman), Tuesday, 30 September 2014 12:27 (nine years ago) link

Thiel’s argument is broader: Not only religious vitality but the entirety of human innovation, he argues, depends on the belief that there are major secrets left to be uncovered, insights that existing institutions have failed to unlock (or perhaps forgotten), better ways of living that a small group might successfully embrace.

This means that every transformative business enterprise, every radical political movement, every truly innovative project contains some cultish elements and impulses — and the decline of those impulses may be a sign that the innovative spirit itself is on the wane. When “people were more open to the idea that not all knowledge was widely known,” Thiel writes, there was more interest in groups that claimed access to some secret knowledge, or offered some revolutionary vision. But today, many fewer Americans “take unorthodox ideas seriously,” and while this has clear upsides — “fewer crazy cults” — it may also be a sign that “we have given up our sense of wonder at secrets left to be discovered.”

correct implication to draw, that the tech-startup boom has evidently been trying to exploit our latent willingness to follow cults, and that 'managerial capitalism' is becoming (again) a cult that increasingly permeates all interactions at all levels of society

j., Tuesday, 30 September 2014 12:38 (nine years ago) link

we have given up our sense of wonder at secrets left to be discovered, families left to be abandoned, life savings left to be handed over.

lag∞n, Tuesday, 30 September 2014 13:42 (nine years ago) link

new flavors of kool-aid to have people wonder whether we have drunk

j., Tuesday, 30 September 2014 23:38 (nine years ago) link

Ross DO THAT

calstars, Wednesday, 1 October 2014 02:01 (nine years ago) link

ross DOUBT IT

lag∞n, Wednesday, 1 October 2014 02:50 (nine years ago) link

fuck douting a hat

my jaw left (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 1 October 2014 02:54 (nine years ago) link

one year passes...

tricky dick we hardly knew ye

where to begin

an emotionally withholding exterminator (m coleman), Sunday, 22 November 2015 14:16 (eight years ago) link

reading the headline, i thought maybe ross would call for watergatesque sabotage of trump and/or carson

an emotionally withholding exterminator (m coleman), Sunday, 22 November 2015 14:18 (eight years ago) link

as if the politics of racial division as practiced by republicans in 2015 isn't 100% pulled from the nixon playbook

an emotionally withholding exterminator (m coleman), Sunday, 22 November 2015 14:20 (eight years ago) link

lmao douthat is so far out in left field, a devout catholic millennial who hates college but loves philosphy and nixon, this really is what the times shdve been looking for in its token conservative all along total irrelevance

lag∞n, Sunday, 22 November 2015 14:26 (eight years ago) link

ikr!eagerly awaiting catholic convert ross "defender of the faith" douthat's review of spotlight

an emotionally withholding exterminator (m coleman), Sunday, 22 November 2015 14:44 (eight years ago) link

Got really depressed when I saw the popup tell me that was my 10th free NYT article of 10 for this month

welltris (crüt), Sunday, 22 November 2015 15:00 (eight years ago) link

pray to God, he'll give you an 11th free NYT article. Bishop Doutaht will intercede.

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 22 November 2015 15:21 (eight years ago) link

what's with the not-quite-austen first line

aaaaablnnn (abanana), Sunday, 22 November 2015 15:40 (eight years ago) link

I thought it was a truth universally accepted that Democrats who want to be president want to be Ronald Reagan.

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 22 November 2015 15:44 (eight years ago) link

three months pass...

nope sorry this human-sized ambulatory scrotum is still The Worst

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/28/opinion/sunday/from-obama-to-trump.html?mwrsm=Email

rmde bob (will), Sunday, 6 March 2016 22:16 (eight years ago) link

Reminds me of Addison DeWitt: "You have a point. An idiotic one, but a point."

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 6 March 2016 22:21 (eight years ago) link

no question the Obama people, understanding how social media works, have sold an image of the man that does correspond to every loathsome thing about the imperial presidency since 1945, but boomcrashpow 'that's how we got to Trump' is terrible fiction. I can imagine the delight on Brooks' editors face as they thought of the sharing/click possibilities.

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 6 March 2016 22:23 (eight years ago) link

boomcrashpow 'that's how we got to Trump'

IN THAT PRESIDENT...

denies the existence of dark matter (difficult listening hour), Sunday, 6 March 2016 22:24 (eight years ago) link

If Obama proved that you can run a presidential campaign as an aspirational cult of personality, in which a Sarah Silverman endorsement counts for as much as a governor or congressman’s support, Trump is proving that you don’t need Silverman to shout “the Aristocrats!” and have people eat it up.

iatee, Sunday, 6 March 2016 23:46 (eight years ago) link

crazy that political kingmaker Sarah Silverman didn't even get an ambassadorship after all she did for Obama

iatee, Sunday, 6 March 2016 23:49 (eight years ago) link

such a fucking prig

rmde bob (will), Sunday, 6 March 2016 23:50 (eight years ago) link

James K. Polk wasn't on snapchat i'll tell you what

Option ARMs and de Man (s.clover), Monday, 7 March 2016 01:20 (eight years ago) link

five months pass...

Chapo Trap House picking apart Douthat's book is just wonderful.

the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Thursday, 1 September 2016 10:50 (seven years ago) link

That sounds fun, there a link?

6 god none the richer (m bison), Thursday, 1 September 2016 11:12 (seven years ago) link

Not updated nearly often enough, but hilarious: https://twitter.com/ralphdouthat

a 47-year-old chainsaw artist from South Carolina (Phil D.), Thursday, 1 September 2016 13:13 (seven years ago) link

They don't get to the book dissection for a little while, but the opening bit is good too.

the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Thursday, 1 September 2016 15:28 (seven years ago) link

This Chapo Trap House ep is excellent. Douthat is far more of a hyper-Catholic version of a David Mitchell character than I ever expected.

Sentient animated cat gif (kingfish), Monday, 12 September 2016 16:25 (seven years ago) link

Their earlier ep covering this is here:

https://m.soundcloud.com/chapo-trap-house/episode-3-freeway-ross-douthat-sailboat-dope

Sentient animated cat gif (kingfish), Monday, 12 September 2016 16:31 (seven years ago) link

Yeah listened to that one too, amazing.

the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Monday, 12 September 2016 17:06 (seven years ago) link

Honestly I've been listening to Chapo episodes like every day lately, so going through the old ones when there isn't a new one (I even signed on for the premium eps).

the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Monday, 12 September 2016 18:38 (seven years ago) link

Ever since the internet I've kind of scratched my head at why these particular individuals, of all people, get paid so much money to opine about stuff every week

― Burt Stuntin (Hurting 2), Thursday, February 6, 2014 10:17 PM (two years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol I feel like this kind of gets at what's good about Chapo, actually, it's like there's finally someone giving articulate voice to my bafflement at the punditocracy

the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Monday, 12 September 2016 18:42 (seven years ago) link

was considering just starting a chapo thread. I feel like in the current ilx climate it wouldn't be very active though.

the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Tuesday, 13 September 2016 17:15 (seven years ago) link

Just incorporate it into the comedy podcasts thread? That's what I'm going to do

Sentient animated cat gif (kingfish), Tuesday, 13 September 2016 17:16 (seven years ago) link

yeah that makes sense

the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Tuesday, 13 September 2016 17:17 (seven years ago) link

Oh boy:

OP-ED COLUMNIST
Clinton’s Samantha Bee Problem
963
SEPTEMBER 21, 2016
Ross Douthat
Ross Douthat
When the histories of the Trump era are written from exile in Justin Trudeau’s Canada, they will record that it was none other than Jimmy Fallon who brought down the republic.

Or so you might have thought, at least, listening the furious liberal reaction to Fallon’s willingness to treat Trump like any other late-night guest last week: kidding around with him, mussing up his combover and steering clear of anything that would convey to late-night television viewers that Trump is actually beyond the pale.

But the Democratic Party’s problem in the age of Trump isn’t really Jimmy Fallon. Its problem is Samantha Bee.

Not Bee alone, of course, but the entire phenomenon that she embodies: the rapid colonization of new cultural territory by an ascendant social liberalism.

The culture industry has always tilted leftward, but the swing toward social liberalism among younger Americans and the simultaneous surge of activist energy on the left have created a new dynamic, in which areas once considered relatively apolitical now have (or are being pushed to have) an overtly left-wing party line.

On late-night television, it was once understood that David Letterman was beloved by coastal liberals and Jay Leno more of a Middle American taste. But neither man was prone to delivering hectoring monologues in the style of the “Daily Show” alums who now dominate late night. Fallon’s apolitical shtick increasingly makes him an outlier among his peers, many of whom are less comics than propagandists — liberal “explanatory journalists” with laugh lines.

Some of them have better lines than others, and some joke more or hector less. But to flip from Stephen Colbert’s winsome liberalism to Seth Meyers’s class-clown liberalism to Bee’s bluestocking feminism to John Oliver’s and Trevor Noah’s lectures on American benightedness is to enter an echo chamber from which the imagination struggles to escape.

It isn’t just late-night TV. Cultural arenas and institutions that were always liberal are being prodded or dragged further to the left. Awards shows are being pushed to shed their genteel limousine liberalism and embrace the race-gender-sexual identity agenda in full. Colleges and universities are increasingly acting as indoctrinators for that same agenda, shifting their already-lefty consensus under activist pressure.

Meanwhile, institutions that were seen as outside or sideways to political debate have been enlisted in the culture war. The tabloid industry gave us the apotheosis of Caitlyn Jenner, and ESPN gave her its Arthur Ashe Award. The N.B.A., N.C.A.A. and the A.C.C. — nobody’s idea of progressive forces, usually — are acting as enforcers on behalf of gay and transgender rights. Jock culture remains relatively reactionary, but even the N.F.L. is having its Black Lives Matters moment, thanks to Colin Kaepernick.

For the left, these are clear signs of cultural gains, cultural victory. But the scale and swiftness of those victories have created two distinctive political problems for the Democratic Party.

First, within the liberal tent, they have dramatically raised expectations for just how far left our politics can move, while insulating many liberals from the harsh realities of political disagreement in a sprawling, 300-plus million person republic. Among millennials, especially, there’s a growing constituency for whom right-wing ideas are so alien or triggering, left-wing orthodoxy so pervasive and unquestioned, that supporting a candidate like Hillary Clinton looks like a needless form of compromise.

Thus Clinton’s peculiar predicament. She has moved further left than any modern Democratic nominee, and absorbed the newer left’s Manichaean view of the culture war sufficiently that she finds herself dismissing almost a quarter of the electorate as “irredeemable” before her donors. Yet she still finds herself battling an insurgency on her left flank, and somewhat desperately pitching millennials on her ideological bona fides.

At the same time, outside the liberal tent, the feeling of being suffocated by the left’s cultural dominance is turning voting Republican into an act of cultural rebellion — which may be one reason the Obama years, so good for liberalism in the culture, have seen sharp G.O.P. gains at every level of the country’s government.

This spirit of political-cultural rebellion is obviously crucial to Trump’s act. As James Parker wrote in The Atlantic, he’s occupying “a space in American politics that is uniquely transgressive, volatile, carnivalesque, and (from a certain angle) punk rock.” (The alt-right-ish columnist Steve Sailer made the punk rock analogy as well.) Like the Sex Pistols, Parker suggests, Trump is out to “upend the culture” — but in this case it’s the culture of institutionalized political correctness and John Oliver explaining the news to you, forever.

Trump’s extremism also limits his appeal, of course. But if liberals are fortunate to be facing a Johnny Rotten figure in this presidential campaign, they are still having real trouble putting him away … and if he were somewhat less volatile and bigoted and gross, liberalism would be poised to close its era of cultural ascendance by watching all three branches of government pass back into conservative hands.

Something like this happened once before: In the 1960s and 1970s, the culture shifted decisively leftward, but American voters shifted to the right and answered a cultural revolution with a political Thermidor.

That Nixon-Reagan rightward shift did not repeal the 1960s or push the counterculture back to a beatnik-hippie fringe. But it did leave liberalism in a curious place throughout the 1980s: atop the commanding heights of culture yet often impotent in Washington, D.C.

By nominating a Trump rather than a Nixon or a Reagan, the Republicans may have saved liberalism from repeating that trajectory. But it remains an advantage for the G.O.P., and a liability for the Democratic Party, that the new cultural orthodoxy is sufficiently stifling to leave many Americans looking to the voting booth as a way to register dissent.

(Pasted in full b/c fuck their paywall)

One of the better responses to this is from mr Andy Richter

(rocketcat) 🚀🐱 👑🐟 (kingfish), Wednesday, 21 September 2016 18:41 (seven years ago) link

When the histories of the Trump era are written from exile in Justin Trudeau’s Canada, they will record that it was none other than Jimmy Fallon who brought down the republic
When the histories of the Trump era are written from exile in Justin Trudeau’s Canada, they will record that it was none other than Jimmy Fallon who brought down the republic

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 21 September 2016 18:47 (seven years ago) link

Richter tweeted a link to Douthat’s article on Wednesday morning, calling it “a tub of horses—”

andy is very good at succinct summary

dr. mercurio arboria (mh 😏), Wednesday, 21 September 2016 18:59 (seven years ago) link

Douhat seems concerned about something, but I'm damned if I can figure out what kind of a problem he is trying to define that needs to be solved, other than that Hillary Clinton and the democratic party are not as reactionary as much of the electorate and he kind of wishes they'd pander more to voters who feel asphyxiated by granting equal rights to blacks or gay people.

a little too mature to be cute (Aimless), Wednesday, 21 September 2016 19:02 (seven years ago) link

imo the problem is people who uncritically follow one news source and sit there sharing that as the only perspective, even if it's a comedy show that is based on commenting on news and politics, not being a primary reporter

it's an issue among many groups but pointing at a single comedy central show is even more reductive than pointing at fox news

not even going to attempt to imagine someone who only bases their opinion on douthat articles

dr. mercurio arboria (mh 😏), Wednesday, 21 September 2016 19:07 (seven years ago) link


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